Thursday, April 4, 2013

RIOC Board Approves Charlene Indelicato As New President/CEO - She Says Roosevelt Island Is Her Dream Job

The Roosevelt Island Operating Corp (RIOC) Board Of Directors today approved Governor Cuomo's selection of Charlene Indelicato (former Mount Vernon Commissioner of Planning and Development Department) as the new RIOC President/CEO. The vote was 5 for approval and 3 abstentions. The 5 RIOC Directors voting to approve Ms. Indelicato were NY State representatives:
  • Chair Darryl Towns,
  • The NY State Budget Director Representative
and resident directors:
  • David Kraut,
  • Howard Polivy and
  • Fay Christian.
The 3 Directors who abstained were:
  • Michael Shinozaki,
  • Margie Smith and
  • Katherine Grimm.
The directors who abstained made it clear that they were not objecting to Ms. Indelicato qualifications for the RIOC President/CEO position but were objecting to the process by which she was selected without an Executive Search by the RIOC Board and without competing candidates. The Resident Directors who voted to approve Ms Indelicato also objected to the process by which she was selected but asserted that on balance the urgent need for a permanent RIOC President coupled with her qualifications outweighed their concerns over process.

Ms. Indelicato spoke briefly near the end of the RIOC Board meeting saying:
... Whatever the vote was, the vote was.... I know we can work together for the benefit of Roosevelt Island. ... I've been following the blog for many months and I just want to say this is one of the most interesting communities I have ever seen, really wonderful reading... I have worked in cities and small towns and this is a job that is a dream of mine to tell the truth, to run and operate the policy of this board, a small city in a big city is the most wonderful thing in the world for me...
Here's Ms. Indelicato's introductory remarks to the Roosevelt Island community:

More on Ms. Indelicato's selection as RIOC President from previous post and will update with more video from the meeting tomorrow.

UPDATE 4/5 - Here is the RIOC Board Directors discussion and vote approving Ms. Indelicato as RIOC President/CEO

and statement by former Roosevelt Island Residents Association (RIRA) Secretary Sherrie Helstien expressing her disappointment and shame at the two resident RIOC Directors (Howard Polivy and Fay Christian) who voted "lock step" to approve Governor Cuomo's selection of Ms. Indelicato without the appropriate vetting of her candidacy.

Before the vote during RIOC's Public Session, Roosevelt Island's Assembly Member Micah Kellner expressed disappointment at the lack of transparency in the selection process of Ms. Indelicato by Governor Cuomo.

Mr. Kellner also spoke of the lack of trust existing between the Roosevelt Island community and Public Safety Department and the need for reform of the Department.


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Romanoreid said...

It's about time Someone stand up to these people who think they run the politics of Roosevelt Island. I commend Howard Polivy ,Faye Christian,and all the others who voted to get things moving in this community. The incompetancy of this current RIOC board has put us where we are ! Now that the governor has excercised his executive right to appoint someone in the blatant midst of the absence of the board members he is wrong? I commend all who have decided to get the ball rolling. This community needs strong leadership. This newly appointed President will not stroke the ego's of the naysayers of the community .She is a true leader unlike Leslie,Fernando who threw themselves at the mercy of people like sherie Helstien ,Margie Smith,The entire Maple Tree Group/. My personal opinion is (Screw) RIOC elections.It has not worked in the past . It has only elected those who are well connested within the Island community.. According to popular opinion ~It has not been so democratic for others .

Joe Carbo said...

god bless you romano. for saying the truth.

Joe Carbo said...

we need more people from eastwood to have a say in what goes on on this island.

Joe Carbo said...

it is time to get rid of the main street wire. it is a rag. the roosevelt islander is all we need. the wire is like have a newspaper in north korea.

Joe Carbo said...

soon these people will not be running this island. it will be the new peeople moving into eastwood.and you know who they are

Joe Carbo said...

we need new rioc members romano we need you to run. you can win

Romanoreid said...

Joe Carbo ~Thank you . However, In the short term ,I am seeking to strengthen the services provided with the support of all. Roosevelt Island is a diverse community with enormous potential.Might I add -In the intrim everyone will not be satisfied .Going foward allowing others to voice their opinion withour reprisal is what makes our community a community of democracy .I do hope to work alongside other elected members to atleast bridge the divide.. There are those who do not see things the way I do,I look foward to working with those people also..
Thanks again.

Joe Carbo said...

we need to start Sometimg like the maple tree org. this WILL BE PEOPLE From eastwood and 2 4 river road. its far too long that the people from riVEr cross has been running this iSlaND

Romanoreid said...

FRANK---->EXCELLENT POINTERS !!! I think the entire board need revamping. Excluding the ABO ,The chair who obviously is embedded into the oversight of RIOC. There is still a very serious issue RIOC has yet to address.Ms Erica Wilder , who has been hired as a community relations /Public Relations expert has been negligent in taking part in any community matters whatsoever. Ms.Wilder almost never attends RIRA meetings to even attempt to hear concerns of the Island community.Yet Ms,Wilder has been noted to constantly bad mouth the residents,the
Island's leadership every chance she gets.Ms.Wilder has also aided Fernando Martinez in his efforts to sabotage any resident who attempts to point out any defects in the RIOC organization. Most would think Ms.Wilder would be more preoccupied with solving issues oppose to purposley adding fuel to the fire. A RIOC employee has mentioned to me ,other Island community advocates that Ms.Erica Wilder has gone so far as to conducting credit ,criminal background checks on various residents that she disagree with to use against them.As quiet as kept ,I think RIOC would be better off terminating the employment of Ms.Wilder .....I think the hire of a new community relations person would be conducive to RIOC ,beneficial to Island residents. In the days to come ,There will be several committees discussing the matter. Hopefully RIOC can move foward on a more productive note.By allowing Ms.Wilder to continue as a RIOC employee only adds insult to injury.

Romanoreid said...

Frank ,I wholeheartedly agree. This board is in over it's head! What has the current sitting members done for this community? The answer is quite obvious .The RIOC board was completley aware of the horrible actions,inactions of this administration i.e.Leslie ,Fernando,Keith,Last but not least --Ms.Erica Wilder who has been a very poor community relations person.

Romanoreid said...

So true CheshireKitty so true.

Romanoreid said...

Maple Tree Group? Hell No we don't ! (smile)..

CheshireKitty said...

Thank you, Romano!

Eastwood Res said...

Y'all are plain buggin'. Kitty, you and Romano make some points, but overall you miss the Big picture. It has not been proven that Mr. Jones was beaten by Lil' Officer Torrez. Y'all are goin' by what was told to you by Ms. Vega. Of course she's gonna say her son was unnecessarily beaten up. He ran about 8 blocks from the cops who had to chase him. And, if he was beaten to an inch of his life as Kitty exaggerates, why was he standing up in the photo in the hospital that I seen on a poster? Why did he look fine at the press conference?

I don't know... I'm goin' to the march, but only to watch the show y'all are putting on to try to get rid of the Chief and the other higher-ups at PSD. There's really nothing else y'all want, which is kinda crazy. If the reports come back that he wasn't beaten, then what? Are y'all going to try to give them their jobs back? I've seen the Deputy mingling with the Seniors. Shoot, I've seen the Chief kickin' it with Romano. What have they really done? All y'all are listening to Kitty and Farance and Feely and Maqeeva. Are y'all serious? Romano is about the only one with some sense, and that's why I'm buggin' that he's with y'all fools.

Like I said before, Y'all are buggin'!

Frank Farance said...

Eastwood Res: You're a person who will never be convinced, regardless of the facts:

- Mr. Jones was arrested (as per PSD blotter, and photos of Ms. Jones handcuffed to a hospital bed)

- Mr. Jones was injured (as per the hospital medical records)

- It is not plausible that Mr. Jones could have outran PSD for 8 blocks will lungs full of blood

- Thus, the injuries came from the arrest

- The charges were, at most, trespassing (which the NY DA declined to prosecute)

- Peace officers are not permitted to use deadly force for non-felony crimes.

- Thus, Mr. Jones was abused by PSD.

Eastwood Res, I wish you the best in life, and the best luck, too: I hope you're never a victim who is dependent upon a jury that includes people like you who are unable to accept the truth of the facts.

As for my concerns, I have expressed them in numerous posts. My focus is not just Guerra (who is a big part of the problem), but also the RIOC Board and the service PSD provides.

GeorgeProzakis said...

I guess it's fine to arrest non residents people in your eyes?

Your a clown looking for a paycheck. Sounds like you are in it for the money. Jokes on you, nobody is getting anything.

It's POLICE WORK you joker.

You resist, it's very possible a person may get injured.

If the individual is being arrested and he uses force, the officers can escalate force one notch more you nitwit.

Peace officers and police officers all use the same use of force continuum. They are equally justified.

Frank Farance said...

Officer Prozakis (or is it Mr. Guerra?), you're back with your misguided and uninformed thinking, including police procedure.

There was no claim or charge of resisting arrest (as per PSD). Officer Prozakis, you should go back and check the law. Sounds like you don't know much about it, you're just about justifying any police abuse.

I have no connection to Mr. Jones. There is no money angle.

You try to make up in bluster what you lack in thinking, knowledge, and facts. And beating the crap out of someone with no justification is BAD POLICE WORK. If you were truly a Good Cop, you'd acknowledge that.

GeorgeProzakis said...

Come on with the cheap shots. I am Mr.Guerra? Seriously? That's your angle on trying to make a point?.


CheshireKitty said...

I see a little concern there, Prozakis, a little nervousness.. Maybe you've already sensed the handwriting on the wall? Maybe it's time to increase your Prozac dose, Prozakis!

As far as cheap shots are concerned, you won that title in calling Frank a clown: That's so off-base it is laughable.

But for you, Prozakis, to resort to name-calling.. it must mean something... you've heard what's in store for you... 'cause Charlene.. dislikes "macho" jerks like Guerra... so off he'll go.. back to Westchester... or wherever he came from!

Frank Farance said...

Officer Prozakis: The "wow" goes to your lame rebuttal, i.e. your claim that you're not Mr. Guerra, but everything else is correct, right?

YetAnotherRIer said...

"You're a person who will never be convinced, ..."


Frank Farance said...

YetAnotherRIer, you say (outrageously): "The people who complain are the ones that have been exposed to law enforcement more than once. They are known to be "bad". Should they always get the benefit of a doubt? Sure, in a perfect world. Is that reality? No, of course not. They need to be treated that way because they tend to do something wrong by default. Better safe than sorry."

You, too, have an inability to espouse fairness.

GeorgeProzakis said...

Your pathetic. I tend to just read but when you spew nonsense with absolutely no experience in police work and with an absolute obvious that you have your hand in the cookie jar, it is disturbing to me.

GeorgeProzakis said...

What? Your a delusional individual.

Frank Farance said...

Officer Prozakis: you have little police experience. Your attitude of Only With Police Experience Can One Evaluate Officers' Actions shows you don't have much experience testifying, which means you don't have much experience as an officer.

Rather than address the facts at hand (which lead to the conclusion of PSD Abuse), you attempt to invalidate the concerns and conclusion with "no experience in police work". Jurors would feel their lack of police experience did not prohibit them from arriving at a verdict on police brutality. In fact, they might find officers with attitudes like yours to be contributing factors to police brutality.

CheshireKitty said...

We shall see, Georgie baby!

CheshireKitty said...

Your answer suggests you believe RIOC/PSD will either lose the civil case or settle for big bucks. In suggesting that, you acknowledge tacitly that RIOC/PSD is in fact guilty of both negligence and brutality. At least in that regard, you're correct!

As far as anyone benefiting from the award other than the victim, that's news to me, and highly unlikely. You can think or assume all you want, but that ain't gonna make it true. Your payoff talk is a product of your paranoid melt-down.

Prozakis: It is possible that folks take up an issue cause it's the right thing to do. I guess that must infuriate you and baffle you: The entire community is lined up against Guerra, and no money is changing hands for them to do so. This must really be an alien concept to you - since you are the corrupt one, a security "whore" who has sold out repeatedly to the highest bidder including fine upstanding organizations such as Urban American, or Related. You are the slut, doing anything the developers want with no regard to whether it is lawful or not. Isn't that true, Prozakis? Now don't deny it - you are collecting a big fat salary (and maybe extras that nobody is supposed to know about) to do their bidding - to keep the island "safe" and "quiet" - no matter what it takes. That is called selling out to the highest bidder Prozakis, not upholding the law, including constitutional rights.

GeorgeProzakis said...

Says the fat man who types well but sounds rediculous in person while talking to the 114pct commander requesting insane things.


Police brutality, yup. I am positive that agency has made thousands of arrests. I am also pretty sure those who never resisted, never got hurt!.

Common sense!. Guess what? You don't even need to be a cop to have common sense!

Keep waiting for that check. I'm sure you need it. Heck, we all need extra money!.

Peace officers cannot use self defense as per article 35 you say?

Where does it say THAT?.

CheshireKitty said...

At least you admit you need extra money.. C'mon George - time to pipe down. You're all washed up. Maybe thousands of arrests were made without incident, but that doesn't cancel out the complaints about harassment, mistreatment, and brutality. You don't get a free pass for incidents of brutality because you weren't always brutal. That's ridiculous. You are the one that's raving about common sense. Because you're out of rebuttals or arguments you resort to irrelevant and pointless personal attacks. Whether I'm fat or thin will make zero difference in a court of law when the time comes to testify about PSD brutality. Why would a jury discount evidence/complaints because of the complainant's weight or any other physical characteristic? You'll find jurors reflect the general population's weight trends - if anything, substantial weight may be an advantage for a witness in establishing rapport or commonality with jurors.

Frank Farance said...

Officer Prozakis: You goal is to distract from the facts. When someone agrees with you "You don't even need to be a cop to have common sense!", yet when someone disagrees with you it's "[spewing] nonsense with absolutely no experience in police work". In other words, you don't really care about the facts.

No one said peace officers can't use self defense, the problem is: it wasn't an issue for Mr. Jones, he did not resist arrest.

As I've said, there is no money angle from my point of view. Your points are unsubstantiated.

Yes, I understand you're not about getting to the facts or substantiating any of your points, you're just a PSD troll looking to object (without reasoning) to anyone who complains about PSD. Based upon your comments, you don't seem to have significant police experience yourself, you're unaware of the facts, and you don't care about the facts ... a triple whammy.

Well, at least there is one positive result: your triple whammy comments make your defense of PSD look foolish.

GeorgeProzakis said...

How do you know for an apsolutne fact he did not resist arrest?.

How can you say that?

I cannot dare say the officers did not use any force at all and it was probably an accident falling down the stairs, but i would never say that. I was not there and neither were you.

I still enjoy reading about new and upcoming things and try to keep privy of whats going on, it just makes me go mad when i read your nonsense.

See, if you HAD absolute facts and this so called video I would be more than willing to listen and understand what is going on.

To me this is intriguing and very interesting topic, it is wrong to keep saying they in fact abused Mr. jones and speak as if you were actually there.

All you know is what was said by his mom and his lawyer, maybe him too but is that enough to crucify others?.

Seriously speaking. I don't care about much but I do care when people act like they were there but were not. It seriously sounds like your in it for some benefit. Sounds very familiar to a television personality who was helping Tawana Brawly back in the day.

GeorgeProzakis said...

I am all for working with the community together, absolutely for it.

Here is the problem.

You have one part of a community that wants police work done and probably call numerous times a day about whatever conditions exist. How many actually, no idea, this is only for perspective purposes.

As a cop, you have to act one it eventually.

If someone keeps calling during the times of 7pm to 9pm about individuals smoking weed in a certain staircase or hallway, what do you want them to do?.

A law enforcement officer is not trained as a security guard to observe and report, they must act.

Smoking weed in public is not a violation it is a misdemeanor, hence, discretion to kick them in the rear is tossed out the window.

Here's what I am getting at. I am sure they have a very difficult job when the going gets tough. I cannot imagine doing any law enforcement without any firearms either. I also don't know how much they make but I keep hearing it isn't much. I am sure the so called children of the island who keep getting arrested have no guidance and I am almost positive that it is an ongoing cycle.

Every new generation of youth end up the same. Some turn to good people, others turn to the street and end up bad.

All of this starts with parenting.

I understand there have been some incidents like from what I read about like the bearded fellow. Ok. These things happen unfortunently. I would be wrong to debate that. Again I was not there and I have no idea of circumstances but as a cop, I do see some co workers getting pulled in by citizens via their mouth and certain words. Sometimes a cop can get pulled in.

I know absolutely zilch about the case of mr.jones other that the single sided case against the agency. I think it is wrong. Period. I wish the facts can come out to prove myself wrong. Yeah, call me a bigot but I typically side with l/e first. So sue me too!. That's my nature until proven otherwise.

I'm sorry I called farance names but his words are very wishy washy. It got to me.

Frank Farance said...

Officer Prozakis: Your priorities are hair combing rather than police brutality. RIOC/PSD tried to cover up their abuse by initially telling the story: Mr. Jones had to go to the emergency room (where they found his lungs filled with fluid) because he had pneumonia (not true), which itself was inconsistent with Mr. Jones running 8 blocks. Lieutenant Yee was part of that bogus story. RIOC/PSD's initial version had nothing to do with a fall.

The problem for you is that main points are not refuted:

- Mr. Jones was arrested (as per PSD blotter, and photos of Ms. Jones handcuffed to a hospital bed)

- Mr. Jones was injured (as per the hospital medical records)

- It is not plausible that Mr. Jones could have outran PSD for 8 blocks will lungs full of blood

- Thus, the injuries came from the arrest

- The charges were, at most, trespassing (which the NY DA declined to prosecute)

- Peace officers are not permitted to use deadly force for non-felony crimes.

- Thus, Mr. Jones was abused by PSD.

You've tried to shift the focus to insults about physical appearance (which is irrelevant to the discussion). On one hand you believe only police can evaluate the actions of police (not the way it works in the US), and on the other hand (when the topic agrees with you) you speak about the "common sense" of non-police.

It's nice to know that your FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) attack isn't working and you recognize it as so, right? Why would you bring up FUD if it weren't an accurate description of your tactics? You'll find FUD on wikipedia, because it is a well-known rhetorical tactic, so people know how to combat your tactics.

Lastly, I thank you very much for being a reliable foil on PSD: while you think you're scoring points with insults, you're reminding residents why they should be upset with RIOC, PSD, and the PSD leadership. Way to go!

GeorgeProzakis said...

You were not there!

Neither was I. I won't say a physical incident did not happen, that would be wrong. It is wrong of you to say he did in fact get beaten, as you were not there either.

You are very good with words and manipulation, I will give you that credit.

I can no way disagree that SOME residents may have legitimate concerns. Some means probably 1 out of several hundred arrests or incidents.

A hord of people, probably the vast majority who have been legitemently arrested are simply jumping on the band wagon.

Not unheard of. Not a new thing to occur.

Damn if they DO THEIR JOBS, damn if they don't.

If they arrest a non island resident, then it's all okay and hunky dory.

As I said before, SOME concerns, absolutely. A majority of concerns just sound lie bandwagon jumpers, to me.

Frank Farance said...

Officer Prozakis: According to you, all jurors are wrong because "You [they] weren't there" to personally witness an event. But items can examined (PSD blotter, pictures, medical reports, lack of charges on resisting arrest, etc.) to determine what happened. That's where I wonder about your actual experience, because these kinds of points would be obvious to any police officer who had experience, including testifying.

And it's not just Mr. Jones, there are many incidents of Public Safety abuse by a *wide diversity* of victims. On top of that, PSD flat out has fabricated their testimony to trump up the charges in cases to make it more difficult to defend (e.g., forcing a guilty plea via public defender when there was no guilty action). If you were connected to the community, you'd know this. But you're not.

And the problem isn't just the individual officer, but the leadership (think Guerra, Bryan, Yee, etc.), and the RIOC Board (thanks Mike Shinozaki, David Kraut, Margie Smith, and Howard Polivy for spectacularly incompetent oversight).

GeorgeProzakis said...

Your not a jury! This isn't court!

Smells like propaganda at best.

Still no solid facts only heresay about an alleged beat down.

ANYTHING could have happened to cause his injuries.

After the transit case of Michael Mineo a few years back, anything is possible. The puzzle can appear to be put together but missing key pieces. Just like that case.

During a trial EVERYTHING IS ALLEGED until proven otherwise. You are not ALLEGING, YOU ARR IN FACT accusing.

You are using skewed statements and twisting it into as if it were ACTUAL PROVEN FACTS. Which is wrong. 100 percent wrong.

CheshireKitty said...

PSD fabricates "crimes" - to create bogus arrests. They are deliberately targeting people deemed "incompatible" or "undesirable" by the real-estate interests and RIOC. None of the developers and no-one on RIOC wants poor people anymore since they "bring down the property values" on RI. That consideration drives the PSD push to "eliminate" anyone not in conformance with gentrification and money. There is no justice possible when money is the prime consideration. PSD is the tool of the developers and RIOC - no-one should be surprised by the ongoing pattern of harassment of those deemed "undesirable". This is all the more reason to continue the struggle against PSD/RIOC policies. It is time to take RIOC/PSD back - no more gloved fist of PSD beating on the poor. Notice to PSD: Hands off Sec 8 tenants and their families. Your actions are being noted. Court cases and juries are key - since juries do not consist of developers or cops...

GeorgeProzakis said...

So when the officers encounter a crime on the street by any individual, they have to ask if they are section 8 or welfare recipients first?

That sounds like some magical power nonsense that no cop is trained for. We don't have psychic powers to know who is who and how much money they have or how much is their rent.

Unbelievable thinking.

CheshireKitty said...

It's easy to tell the recipients of Sec 8 vouchers from the rich/hipsters - a clue is cheap/utilitarian clothing vs 300 or 400 dollar jeans, or, for the ladies, even more fancy/expensive footwear and ostentatiously large, expensive handbags. Anyone can tell a poor person from a rich person - including cops.

GeorgeProzakis said...

Ok if that's what you say. I encountered numerous people with benefit cards with better sneakers and clothing than I have in my closet.

Your spewing nonsense again.

CheshireKitty said...

Well bully for you. In general, it's easy to tell the folks that management wishes to find a way to evict. Then, it's just a matter of fabricating a bogus arrest, which PSD seems to specialize in. After that, the vast Legal Dept of UA takes over the process of evicting the tenant. PSD is directly complicit in the unjust arrests followed by unjust evictions. You can say PSD is the whip that UA holds to both keep "undesirable" tenants "in line" and if possible "remove" them.

Frank Farance said...

Officer Prozakis: You don't know much about hearsay. The RIOC PSD blotter is a record. Ditto for a photograph of Mr. Jones handcuffed to a hospital better. Ditto for the written medical records that described the blood drained from Mr. Jones lungs, and the multiple fractured ribs. And so on. What is skewed in those records?

And why was RIOC/PSD pushing the story of Mr. Jones' supposed pneumonia and that being the reason for taking him to the hospital when, in fact, that was ruled out by the second hospital where he had a couple liters of blood pulled out of his lungs. Again, lungs filled from pneumonia is inconsistent with running 8 blocks. If RIOC/PSD weren't trying to cover this up, then why were they trying to mislead about Mr. Jones actual condition? If RIOC/PSD had nothing to hide, then wouldn't they be telling the truth rather than fabricating stories?

Certainly, if a Subject were caught lying while you were questioning him/her, you'd wonder what they were hiding, right? So why don't you have the same inquiry standards when the roles are reversed: law enforcement being questioned about charges of abuse?

GeorgeProzakis said...

So I guess th same holds true for NYPD Housing Police Bureau?

They are required to file field reports and are required to report behavior of tenants who have been arrested.

If your a predicate/repeat perpetrator, you deserve the boot. I know I don't want predicate or repeat perpetrators living next door to me.

I guess you enjoy it and like trash. I don't.

GeorgeProzakis said...

Your flipping things around. Absolutely nobody is arguing the fact he was arrested or had fractured rib or fluid drained from his lungs.

The argument is your wording of not using alleged but IN FACT a beat down occurred.

As I said before, anything could have happened to fracture a rib. I fractured ribs by falling 4 feet on a street curb. I saw steps at the scene, maybe he fell if all we know?

Maybe it was an ACCIDENT by an officer by using his or her knee while trying to restrain a resisting individual. Not that uncommon. Look up videos of police take downs or just watch tv show COPS. It's not easy to control a resisting individual.

You are a crusader of equality and being fare, yet you are crucifying the officers involved without a trial or jury.

That's my issue with you. You are a hipocrite.

I don't know anything about misleading or whatever was broadcasted, all I know as a cop I was not trained to be a doctor. Perhaps a miscommunication? I don't know, neither do you. Maybe he did in fact have pneumonia. I knew of a coworker with "walking pneumonia", he was fine other than a cough.

My point is, you are not a police expert, you are not a lawyer, you are not a judge, not a jury, not a public official.

You are 100% entitled to your Opinion, but you spew nonsense as FACTS. In FACT you were NOT THERE during the encounter. Right or wrong? If you were there and witnessed it all, please accept my sincer appologies.

Call me a police bigot, but in my experiences as a professional police officer within a large city of over 9,000,000 I can say I see a heck of a lot of good, bad and ugly on a daily basis. When something smells funky, it's second nature for a cop to question it or second guess it.

As I have stated before, transit incident with the shyster Michael Mineo. Claimed he was sodomized with a baton on a platform. It smelled funny(no pun) and I questioned it. The outcome was the evidence pointed to the cops but something was skewed. The jerk ripped his pants HIMSELF. Even the baton had DNA. Thank god the cops were found innocent due to expert witnesses(es). Did that stop the city from paying out? NOPE!.

So my point is, even if they were legally correct to do what they did, which they were. They arrested mr.jones in good faith of the law. Something went wrong somewhere. They will not be jailed or indicted that's for sure. Will the island pay some money? PROBABLY. Only preponderance of evidence is needed for a civil case. This is only a scale of 51%, not beyond a reasonable doubt. Lawyers know this and anytime a police incident is involved, it's hitting lotto(thousands, not millions). The city pays roughly $5,000 to $10,000 for every declined prosecution case.

Da's office dropping charged is absolutely not uncommon!.

GeorgeProzakis said...

Peace officers are absolutely able and legally allowed to use force as per the nys criminal procedure law. Perhaps you are not reading it correctly.

You don't even know if this so called deadly physical force was used. A baton can be a force tool or deadly physical force tool depending on the circumstances.

Fake attorney stirring the pot. At least understand how things work.

Peace AND Police officers follow the same exact force continuum.

CheshireKitty said...

If someone has committed a crime, of course they should be arrested. It's false arrests for bogus crimes that must be stopped, as well as the policy of mass stop and frisk. Let's hope the next Mayor ends or at least curtails stop and frisk. On RI, the problem is similar: Harassment of those deemed "undesirable". False arrests of the same population.

The upside for the developers is that RI gets a new "cleaned-up" look - making it easier for the developers to lease units to the rich, since they visually have the assurance that the "undesirables" have been driven away, in addition to the stats showing RI is a low-crime area. The aim is to make RI similar to gentrified areas like N. Williamsburg, where there are now virtually no minorities, since they have been priced out of apts due to skyrocketing property values. This is what Related, UA, and the other developers have in mind for RI - a rich peoples' mecca, not the mixed-income community originally envisioned by Lindsay/GDP.

To "help along" the disappearance of affordable housing on RI, PSD obliges UA by picking on youth, inventing "crimes" to arrest them, and if the bogus charges stick, then kicking the families out of the building. The "undesirable" tenants are replaced by tenants more to the landlord's liking.

The way the Mayor and his elite friends will eliminate the entire NYCHA system is to let the buildings decay by claiming there is no money to keep them up. The same claim justifies the sell-off of parkland within housing complexes for luxury development. Soon, project dwellers will have no light and air because of new towers of luxury housing. This is exactly what Bloomberg and his cronies want - to make life unlivable for the project dwellers, to let the projects decay and then condemn them to demolition as being too expensive to repair, and thus rid the City of the "undesirable" elements. Of course in the case of the projects, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of residents - but that doesn't seem to faze Bloomberg or his friends. A couple of thousand at Eastwood, a few hundred thousand in the projects - what does it matter? Little by little, the population of the "undesirables" is eroded, helped along by stop and frisk, or, in the case of Eastwood, by PSD's harassment, brutality, false arrests.

Frank Farance said...

Officer ("Call Me A Police Bigot") Prozakis: Mr. Jones had no problem running for 8 blocks (no one disputes that). Yet just post arrest, his lungs are filled with fluid, he has difficulty breathing, and is taken to the hospital via ambulance (no one disputes that). RIOC/PSD have told us that the cause of the difficulty was pneumonia (no one disputes that RIOC/PSD told this story initially).

Simply, RIOC/PSD staff have been misleading about the actual circumstances of Mr. Jones' arrest, and RIOC/PSD have not given an official accounting of the incident (unlike NYPD, which would have given their version of the story within 24 hours). The problem with RIOC/PSD's telling they version of the story? Enough is known about irrefutable facts (fact you happen to agree with "Absolutely nobody is arguing the fact he was arrested or had fractured rib or fluid drained from his lungs"), so it would be really difficult for RIOC/PSD to publish a story that (1) reflected non-negatively on PSD about that incident, and (2) didn't contradict the known facts.

In the past, Director Keith Guerra has lied about the events surrounding arrests/detention (Mr. Guerra's statements proven to be false by video, documents, testimony, etc.). Mr. Guerra as suggested that people arrested have been faking their injuries (contradicted by his own officers' reports). And Mr. Guerra has tried to sanitize portions of the PSD blotter to hide injuries. Not to mention, he's show very poor leadership and administration of Public Safety.

So when you say "They will not be jailed or indicted that's for sure", how can you be so sure? On one hand you're quick to complain about (supposed) hearsay against Public Safety, but on the other hand you're absolutely certain of the officers' innocence. Sounds like you have a double standard: Truth for Residents vs. Truth for Public Safety Officers.

As I said, as a Police Bigot you do a wonderful job educating people on why they need to protest PSD Abuse: you remind people how dense some officers can be that they have no sense of balance, no sense of themselves and how they are heard by non-police. So keep up with those entertaining comments!

GeorgeProzakis said...

A false arrest this is not.

This is a declined prosecution arrest. Maybe the officer did not articulate the facts appropriately, maybe bedside arraignment was not available(not unheard of, things happen). Maybe the DA office thought it was more trouble than it was worth since he was in the hospital.

False arrest, no. A false arrest is flaking someone. For example. The two brothers in queens a few years back who were arrested for selling to an undercover but through video it was observed they did NOT sell to the undercover officer.

A false arrest is completely making things up.

It appears to ME that the officers here have made a good faith arrest but didn't pan out accordingly with the DA OFFICE for whatever reason neither of us know.

CheshireKitty said...

George, these are technicalities. If you know why Jones was arrested, other than possible trespassing - which to me, is a dubious charge, since he was standing on the sidewalk of his own building - then let us know. If their were other charges, go ahead and reveal them.

Also - when is someone trespassing vs stopping to chat with neighbors. I have stopped to chat with neighbors on countless occasions - and the chats may have lasted longer than a few minutes. I don't get harassed/arrested because I fit the parameters of a "desirable" or "preferred" tenant. Yet a resident that doesn't fit those parameters is targeted as an "undesirable" and is harassed and subject to false arrest. If the "sought-after" or "preferred" population are not getting arrested for standing on the sidewalk and talking, then those deemed "undesirable" by the landlord should also not get arrested for doing the same thing.

GeorgeProzakis said...

I have absolutely no idea but resisting arrest should defiantly have been one of them if he did in fact resist. A person shall not resist being arrested for good faith arrests, right or wrong at the time. Said person shall also have reasonable believe the person arresting them is a law enforcement officer. Obviously with uniforms and a shield, it was obvious.

The mayor cannot STOP the practice of "stop question and possibly frisk" this is a procedure built into case law from Terry vs. Ohio, as well as the NYS Criminal procedure law.

Every single police department in the USA uses the so called "stop question and possibly frisk" tool. The vast majority don't even tabulate the stops, at least we do.

It's funny you keep trying to press on race. I guess the entire police department is made up of young white Italians and Irish fellas. Absolutely no Hispanic or African American officers exist, right?. The only ones who stop and question so called minorities are white cops, right?.

That's crazy thinking.

CheshireKitty said...

The ratio is double the number of minorities stopped and frisked as live in NYC - 87% of those stopped & frisked are minority residents, but NYC is not 87% minority.

I never said the police dept consists of Irish and Italian officers - only that the suppression is overwhelmingly aimed at minority residents.

The mayor can direct the police commissioner as he sees fit. BB supports stop and frisk. There are candidates - such as Liu, and even Thompson to some extent - who do not. It will be up to the next Mayor to either continue the policy or change it. The Mayor is certainly in control of what the PD does or doesn't do, what is emphasized and what isn't.

It is best not to resist arrest, and if it was false or bogus, to deal with the matter later in court. Some detainees may not understand or may panic - hence some may flee even if they have done nothing.

There's no way of knowing why Jones ran - it's likely he thought he was going to be mistreated and was trying to avoid mistreatment by running. This is where the PSD could reach out to the community to assure them that if someone is going to be arrested and if the detainee doesn't resist, then the arrest will be carried out in a professional, detached manner. They must also give information about the person's rights and how they can assert their rights in court to dispute the arrest if it wasn't justified. If all this information is given to residents, they will not fear mistreatment at the hands of PSD. After all, when Torrens was walking toward Jones, there was no way of knowing if Torrens was going to arrest or merely question Jones. It's an indication of poor community relations when you have people running for their lives at the approach of a PSD officer. Since Guerra's PSD has a bad reputation Anthony probably ran because he thought he was about to be roughed up etc. Unfortunately, even trying to escape didn't help. He was still mistreated by PSD - just as he must have thought would happen. And he even ended up in the hospital - confirming once again everyone's poor opinion of PSD, as a brutal, poorly run agency.

YetAnotherRIer said...

"Why would you bring up FUD if it weren't an accurate description of your tactics?"

You do not know how to use the term FUD. Which is a bit surprising because a) it is perfectly "googable" and b) you do have an IT background (albeit a bit on the wrong side of things, IMHO).

Eastwood Res said...

I'm not Pro George or Pro Frank here, because you both make valid points and can both be a bit stubborn. What I'm curious about is where Frank got RIOC or PSD's side of the story when they haven't made no official statement about the facts in question. Facts y'all are agreeing on are what y'all are summizing happened. Not only were y'all not there but y'all are basing all these back and forths on what you heard.

I'm also curious how we should believe Frank when he says Guerra has shown poor leadership and administration when our neighborhood is pretty safe. Those people handing out flyers for the march are parents of BMG thugs. Of course they want to bash Public Safety. They are either in denial or just want to get back at them for doing their jobs - which so happen to mean arresting their kids (or should I say "grown a$$ men").

I think its hypocritical how their kids have also been arrested by NYPD (I've seen this with my own eyes) and they aren't protesting against the NYPD. Frank doesn't live on this side of the street so he really doesn't know what these thugs are doing here. He may be talking to the parents of the thugs, but I don't think he's talking to the others who have had to deal with their nonsense.

As for George, I'm not picking a fight with you either, but you seem to think RIOC is probably going to pay out some loot. With as much attention as this situation has brought, I really can't see them doing that. Some people (like Frank) think because they haven't said anything that means there hiding something. My hunch is that they're keeping their side of the story to themselves for whatever court battles they may find themselves in.

Weather or not Guerra, Bryant, Suarez, Yee and Coleman leave is probably up to them. I don't see them being forced out by RIRA. If the government gets rid of people because a residents association wants them gone then that would mean anytime the residents association didn't like somebody and wanted them gone, the government would have to do it. Doesn't sound legit to me.

I'll go with Romano who thinks everyone should start working together. All the marches and protests are just a waste of time. But, I know y'all are still gonna do it, so do what makes you happy. At the end of the day, these people are working for us residents everyday.

RIP Officer Mikey.

YetAnotherRIer said...

Okay, you guys should really stop imagining things when you read other people's comments.

"... but on the other hand you're absolutely certain of the officers' innocence"

Really, you are doing this all wrong. This thing called "reading". What you claim up there is absolutely not true. He is complaining that you guys made up your minds already. All George is doing is saying that there are not enough facts to come to any hard conclusions. Yes, that alone makes the police officer AND the alleged perpetrator both INNOCENT for now and you can argue both sides.

YetAnotherRIer said...

He took apart your argument and all you say is "bully for you" and keep spewing nonsense.

Eastwood Res said...

Kitty, sometimes you sound real smart with your posts, but sometimes you sound far from that. PSD is gonna make up arrests for the building managers? Wow.

I seen Housing Cops arresting kids in the projects. Who are they doing that for? I live in Eastwood, and I wish the "undesirable" tenants were "removed". I don't care if they're section 8 or not. There are a lot of good people who live here and only a few who are undesirable. I say get rid of them so our building can be better.

CheshireKitty said...

FUD = Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. It would be a way to undercut opponents by casting doubt on their arguments, resulting in uncertainty, then fear since the person really will not know where things stand.

Of course Prozakis is using this tactic - Frank correctly points this out.

I don't use FUD to convince or undercut others' arguments. Believe me, I was pro-PSD for several years, and argued many times in opposition to critics of PSD including Frank. The turning point was the Jones case - it put all the other complaints in perspective.

There is a pattern of PSD abuse, although not all PSD officers are abusive. The leadership of PSD enables or condones abuse - the leadership as well as individual officers that are abusive must be removed and PSD reformed.

There is nothing uncertain about my position. Since I don't mind arguing these points, I am happy to keep rebutting arguments from now until the cows come home.. Basically, Guerra Must Go, and Reform PSD.

CheshireKitty said...

But that's not what Prozakis is arguing. He is saying the officer was justified in arresting Jones, and that the arrest was declined because of a technicality, perhaps because he couldn't be arraigned at the bedside. He is saying their was a valid reason for the arrest yet he wont say what the reason was. He is parroting the police/PSD position - i.e. the police were right, the victim wrong -perhaps should have been arrested. But no-one has come up with a reason he was supposed to have been arrested. So why should I believe Prozakis' stories - he is clearly trying to discredit Jones and by extension his story. We only know that Jones was severely injured in the course of his arrest. It's highly unlikely he fell and sustained those injuries. There is evidence based on medical records and there is a video recording of the assault on Jones. There are photos of Jones handcuffed to his bed - in violation of his constitutional rights since no charges were filed against him. I don't know how much more evidence we need to paint a damning picture of PSD as a bunch of sadistic incompetents that shred the constitution.

CheshireKitty said...

You'll see - the Marshals will come and cart off Guerra and the leadership of PSD. The Federal case has been filed and if they;re found to be systematically shredding the constitution, that is what happens: The Federals move in and remove Guerra and his lieutenants.

CheshireKitty said...

I never said those that commit crimes shouldn't be arrested. You misunderstand my post.

Management wants to get rid of tenants that aren't culturally similar to those that can afford the market-rate apts i.e. rich/affluent people. It is easier for them to lease apts if the building contains tenants culturally similar (education/socioeconomic background & so forth) to those that can afford the apt. So to advance this "gentrification" of RL, of course they'll look to arrest the kids living in Sec 8 apts - as a way to get rid of the Sec 8 tenants.

Do I think Doryne gets together with Guerra and explicitly orders him to go after these kids? Maybe not in so many words, but she may indicate to him to "keep a lid on things" "make sure everything is quiet" or "in order". The intent of her wishes is clear and PSD based on her wishes, knows exactly what to do.

CheshireKitty said...

His argument wasn't much of one. It's pretty easy to tell the "undesirables". Didn't Zimmerman take the absolutely innocent Trayvon for a thug? What was that based on? Huh? Because he was walking with a bag of Skittles? Explain exactly why Trayvon was confronted. Zimmerman has tried to explain it many times. It's prejudice - pre-judging perfectly innocent people based purely on their socioeconomic/cultural background.

GeorgeProzakis said...

Nope. I never said they were 100% justified. You never are absolutely 100% because you only need PROBABLY CAUSE to arrest. Beyond a reasonable doubt is 100% and that is handled at court.

I said it seems like they made a GOOD FAITH arrest. It doesn't sound like a flake, sounds like the system broke down somewhere in the middle for the ADA office to decline prosecution.

As I said, in my experiences, I have seen burglaries dropped to trespassing, I have seen assaults upon police dropped to disorderly conduct. It's not unusual to drop a B class misdemeanor if its more trouble than its worth by the ADA office.

As a professional police officer,I am allowed to use my bullcrap-o-meter because I see these things happen often enough.

You, do not!

CheshireKitty said...

So, now you're saying the whole thing was a big misunderstanding, that he was only trespassing - if that was the case, why did he end up in the hospital?

Let's face it - PSD "vented" on Jones, maybe because they didn't enjoy running the length of RI to catch up with him - similar to how a cop might react after a high-speed car chase. PSD was out of control in inflicting those injuries on Jones.

I do not think PSD should be excused or exonerated because they couldn't control themselves in arresting him. Excessive force was used - police brutality. How anybody could say anything otherwise is beyond me..

GeorgeProzakis said...

I am speaking regarding mr.Jones incident. I don't know or care about the others. Regarding a good faith arrest, nobody goes to jail.

Yes even in your mind, pathetic little peace officers.

GeorgeProzakis said...

I hope it won't be the city marshals!

CheshireKitty said...

Hahaha... Federal marshals... "evicting" Guerra and his cronies... next stop for Guerra: Jail.

CheshireKitty said...

George - you're so wrong about Frank. There is no way he would ever take advantage to make money out of a situation such as this. He's a well-respected businessman and would never get involved in such a thing. So you should un-convince yourself because it isn't true.

It is difficult to pin a police brutality/assault rap on cops, that is true. Very difficult. However, there must be some accountability, some check on excessive use of force. NYPD has CCRB - but there 's no equivalent for PSD. That is one of the problems.

The other problem is Guerra - a Director who decided to make too much of PSD, make it into more of a "police" force than is needed, yet, at the same time, not run it efficiently, and also not even have the officers perform the basics they are contractually required to perform such as the vertical patrols.

Instead, Guerra turned the PSD into a bunch of off-the-wall cowboys zipping around in their SUVs constantly on the lookout for non-existent crime - perhaps they consider anyone standing on the sidewalk an automatic criminal. How about the seniors that congregate in their bench alcove in the walkway - I guess that's wrong too as far as PSD is concerned.

The distortion and excesses of PSD began with Guerra. He went too far, and finally his tactics caught up with him - with the Jones case.

We'll see what Ms. Indelicato does once she's sworn in next month. Will she ask Guerra to leave/resign, or sack him? Will she order another investigation of PSD or simply take one look at what they've been doing the past 5 years and give them all the boot - Guerra and his cronies. We shall see.. time will tell...

Eastwood Res said...

CheshireKitty, you've been hangin' out behind Eastwood smoking dope with the crew back there. You really ought to see someone, for you are nuttier than a fruitcake.

CheshireKitty said...

That's convenient for you to say, as well as a hallmark of police states: Any dissent is branded as mental illness. This was how dissenters were "handled" in the USSR, and I guess you would like to see the same tactic applied on RI. You need to give some compelling reasons why RI residents shouldn't be calling for Guerra's "eviction" and subsequent Federal arraignment for civil rights violations. Do you also think the entire Roosevelt Island Residents Association is mentally ill? After all, they have repeatedly voted for Guerra's "eviction" - and reform of PSD. Let us know, Eastwood Res, where you stand on that.

Frank Farance said...

YetAnotherRIer, you have difficulty "reading", as you suggest. Officer (Police Bigot) Prozakis said: "So my point is, even if they were legally correct to do what they did,
which they were. They arrested mr.jones in good faith of the law.
Something went wrong somewhere. They will not be jailed or indicted
that's for sure.". This is where Prozakis is "absolutely certain of the officers' innocence", i.e., he is certain they did things legally, they will not be indicted, and they they will not be jailed. YetAnotherRIer, why not try some "reading" yourself before saying I'm not reading? Now Prozakis has some difficulties reading (and writing), but your complaint should be with him.

Frank Farance said...

YetAnotherRIer: You don't understand "FUD" and "B*llsh*it". For adefinitive treatise, see "On Bullshit", by Harry Frankfurt, Professor Emeritus of Philosophy at Princeton. In contrast where Bullshit (the Bullshitter) does not care about whether or not the statements are true or false, FUD (just like a liar) knows what the truth is
and works against it.

For example, Officer ("Call Me Police Bigot") Prozakis knows that juries (how our society determines "facts" in a legal setting) are comprised of (mostly) non-police officers, yet Prozakis' position is that this can only be understood by police officers: "Your [sic] pathetic. I tend to just read but when you spew nonsense with absolutely no experience in police work ...".

In other words, Prozakis knows the truth, but looks to create Uncertainty and Doubt in us non-police officers using our logical minds, such as recognizing that the Jones Incident involves PSD abuse.

Now the Fear part comes in when Prozakis makes statements like "If someone keeps calling during the times of 7pm to 9pm about individuals smoking weed in a certain staircase or hallway, what do you want them to do?". Prozakis' statement is intended to instill Fear in us (the readers), which can only be quelled by law enforcement, a police officer like himself and, thus, you should have Uncertainty and Doubt about your on rational thinking (especially on PSD Abuse) because only a police officer can address your Fear. Or as described in Wikipedia's entry on Appeal to Fear (see ""):

"This fallacy has the following argument form:

Either P or Q is true.
Q is frightening.
Therefore, P is true.

The argument is invalid. The appeal to emotion is used in exploiting existing fears to create support for the speaker's proposal, namely P."

My use of the term FUD is consistent with Wikipedia's entry (see ",_uncertainty_and_doubt"), which also cites Appeal to Fear.

YetAnotherRIer, why not do some "reading", such as your own citations, before making your arguments?

Frank Farance said...

Officer ("Call Me A Police Bigot") Prozakis: It's clear you don't do police work because you don't understand deadly force and when it may be used. You say "You [Frank] don't even know if this so called deadly physical force was used", which shows how stale your knowledge is (just as your knowledge was lacking on Vertical Patrols and the NYPD Patrol Guide).

Article 35 does not permit deadly force in this case because the arrest
(trespassing) was not a felony charge. Deadly force includes "impairment of the function of any bodily organ", which was suffered by Mr. Jones in his arrest.

Prozakis: your knowledge is way rusty to be an actual working police officer.

Here's the excerpts. Article 10 provides the following key definitions:

"Deadly physical force" means physical force which, under the circumstances in which it is used, is readily capable of causing death or other serious physical injury.

"Serious physical injury" means physical injury which creates a substantial risk of death, or which causes death or serious and protracted disfigurement, protracted impairment of health or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily organ.

Article 35 explains when physical force is justified:

S 35.30 Justification; use of physical force in making an arrest or in preventing an escape.

[note: my highlighting and all-caps for emphasis]

1. A police officer or a peace officer, in the course of effecting or attempting to effect an arrest, or of preventing or attempting to prevent the escape from custody, of a person whom he reasonably believes to have committed an offense, may use physical force when and to the extent he
reasonably believes such to be necessary to effect the arrest, or to prevent the escape from custody, or to defend himself
or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent
use of physical force; ***except that he may use deadly physical force for such purposes ONLY when he reasonably believes that:***

(a) The offense committed by such person was:
(i) a felony or an attempt to commit a felony involving the use or attempted use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person; or
(ii) kidnapping, arson, escape in the first degree, burglary in the first degree or any attempt to commit such a crime; or

(b) The offense committed or attempted by such person was a felony and that, in the course of resisting arrest therefor or attempting to escape from custody, such person is armed with a firearm or deadly weapon; or

(c) Regardless of the particular offense which is the subject of the arrest or attempted escape, the use of deadly physical force is necessary to defend the police officer or peace officer or another person from what the officer reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force.

GeorgeProzakis said...

Genius, I pointed out the fact that a baton can and routinely used as a compliance tool.

I'm sure you have watched occupy Wall Street videos. All of those were merely trespassing, or heck, even just disorderly conduct.

Notice every single cop having their batons out and using them in different ways opposed to using it to strike onto ones head to be used as deadly physical force?

You sir are a professional agitator and you know what is right but YOU use the FUD method well.

Frank Farance said...

Officer ("Call Me A Police Bigot") Prozakis: You fundamentally don't understand the law in this regard: it's not about the instrument (baton, knee, etc.), the law is about the damage to the person (regardless of instrument). So your framing this in language of an instrument means you really don't understand the law. You are obviously poorly trained ... or maybe you were better trained in the past but have forgotten the fundamentals because you're not patrolling.

Clearly, you don't know what Deadly Physical Force is.

Frank Farance said...

Officer ("Call Me A Police Bigot") Prozakis: You fundamentally don't understand the law in this regard: it's not about the instrument (baton, knee, etc.), the law is about the damage to the person, regardless of instrument. So your framing this in language of an instrument means you really don't understand the law. You are obviously poorly trained ... or maybe you were better trained in the past but have forgotten the fundamentals because you're not patrolling.

Clearly, you don't know what Deadly Physical Force is.

GeorgeProzakis said...

Oh boy. Says the civilian who only knows the view point of watching Cops or the t.v..

How do YOU know a baton was used Ina deadly physical force capacity?.


Not only do you like to FUD, your also a DUD.

I think Duane Reade has a sale on combs.

Frank Farance said...

Officer (Call Me A Police Bigot) Prozakis: Your response is incoherent/juvenile and you've forgotten what you said. Prozakis, it was you who was talking about using a baton, not me - go back and read my comments. Mr. Jones suffered Deadly Physical Force because it includes "impairment of the function of any bodily organ", e.g., lungs filled with blood and difficulty breathing. In other words, I was focused on the severity of the injuries (which is how the law frames it, not the instrument used). Then you get into this phony argument about whether or not batons were used (etc.), and you don't even understand the law yourself (because you're still talking about a baton).

And what is the point of saying "I think Duane Reade has a sale on combs"? Do you think you're scoring rhetorical points? Answer: You're not, and the opposite is true: you're not interested in discussing the topic or adding expertise (which you seem to have little), you're just attempting to insult and hope to get a rise (which you won't from me). So keep on sending those really dumb comments.

Frank Farance said...

Officer (Call Me A Police Bigot) Prozakis: Your response is incoherent/juvenile and you've forgotten what you said. Prozakis, it was you who was talking about using a baton, not me - go back and read my comments. Mr. Jones suffered Deadly Physical Force because it includes "impairment of the function of any bodily organ", e.g., lungs filled with blood and difficulty breathing. In other words, I was focused on the severity of the injuries (which is how the law frames it, not the instrument used). Then you get into this phony argument about whether or not batons were used (etc.), and you don't even understand the law yourself (because
you're still talking about a baton).

And what is the point of saying "I think Duane Reade has a sale on combs"? Do you think you're scoring rhetorical points? Answer: You're not, and the opposite is true: you're not interested in discussing the topic or adding expertise (which you seem to have little), you're just attempting to insult and hope to get a rise (which you won't from me). So keep on sending those really dumb comments.

GeorgeProzakis said...

Zip it up civilian. I hope the cut of he check helps you out.

Professional agitator.

CheshireKitty said...

It's great that you continue with your foolish comments Prozakis, which serve as a hilarious foil to Frank's savvy replies! Please keep up the l/e "lulus" - so that the story is kept at the top of the blog!

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