Roosevelt Island Main Street Arcade Prototype Nearly Complete - Window Panels Removed And New Ceiling In Place
Image Of 568 Main Street Arcade Yesterday Without Window and Scaffolding
Reported last June 21:
... Hudson Related has removed the glass window from Main Street Arcade at 568 MainAs I was walking past the area yesterday, it appears that the proposed mockup is almost completed. Here's the windowless arcade viewed from across the street,
and is constructing a prototype in the area to test possible designs of what the Arcade might look like.The proposed mockup should be completed in a few weeks....
looking out to the street from the Main Street Arcade
and the new wooden ceiling
compared to the present ceiling.
Lighting still needs to be added as well as new street furniture. The prototype for Roosevelt Island Main Street Arcade will soon be ready for community evaluation.
158 comments :
I really like the look without the glass panels.
Don't like the wood ceiling. It's out of character with the building architecture and materials.
+1
I like the ceiling. It's far better than what is there now and, at least in my view, gives the building a bit of hidden warmth. I also think this stain is intended to match the new meditation steps, but haven't tried to compare the two.
I'll be interested in what lighting they choose - hopefully they go with something on the cooler/blue end of the spectrum instead of the current red/pink ones.
Contrary to your assertion, I think absolutely zero people visit Roosevelt Island for the covered seating at Roosevelt Landings. I'd venture to say that we get more people coming to the island to check out the parking space availability pucks than the seating in your building. It's clear you love the seating, but the outdoor seating concerns can be addressed by providing more seating in the "junction" areas and in other public spaces. Roosevelt Island is not want for places to rest your bum and chit chat with friends and neighbors.
I agree with you. The wood ceiling and removal of the glass panels does not fit with the look and feel of mid century modern architecture which was the paradigm for the original Northtown Phase 1 buildings.
I've looked at Eastwood for 30 years. The glass enclosed walkway is cold, dirty, dark and dreary, day and night. It desperately needs a fresh look with better lighting and then well maintained stores. For the few people I see walking through the arcade, even on inclement days there is still plenty of coverage from the elements without the glass. I am waiting to see the finished product and the positioning and style of benches which in my opinion should be placed with their backs to the stores and building entrances, looking out onto Main Street...a much more pleasant view and still well covered from the monsoon you seem to think we need protection from. Why would anyone want to sit on a cold, hard, dirty slab of concrete or walk next to a tacky planter (sometimes with plastic flowers). Comparing the Eastwood arcade to the Winter Garden or calling it a glass-enclosed park is wishful thinking. We have the ability to make it the amenity it never has been..please give it a chance....change is good!
By the way, the covered arcades of Manhattan Park, PS 217, the Post Office (Motorgate), Battery Park city and many other buildings of this type....all no glass.
"How can you say there are a few people walking in the arcade - when it must serve at least the thousands that live in Eastwood to begin with, plus probably more thousands that do not live in Eastwood. Your comment that it lacks walkers makes no sense whatsoever. "
And how many of those really care about glass panels, etc.?
"I imagine you would want to get rid of the touching memorial in the little garden, and maybe have no reindeer in that little garden at Christmas time. These aren't upscale enough for you I suppose."
How did you interpolate this from the few sentences Maingal wrote? I see a pattern here somehow. Somebody writes something you disagree with and you turn it into drama by using not facts but imaginations of yours about who the writer of the comment may be. And you mostly turn this into a racial or socio-economic conflict. Doesn't that get tiring somehow? Being the victim of society and capitalism?
Wait, you've spent weeks attempting to incite class warfare ("glass" warfare? I'll be here all week, folks) over H-R's changes and you don't even live in Eastwood? Wow.
I agree, the wood paneling is a terrible choice. It seems like an odd choice to begin with (where do you ever see wood ceilings outdoors?) but if they really want to move forward with that they should pick a color that is not so noxious. The color of the wood in this prototype doesn't match a single thing on the island! What Main St. really needs is more openness - you wouldn't know there were businesses there except for the horrific red signs that note the address and name of the business. Main St. needs, sure, a Subway - but also a bakery with a cute sign, a nail salon that doesn't look like a breeding ground for mosquitos, and businesses that don't appear to be closed when they're actually open. Where's our liquor/wine shop (wasn't that supposed to open already)? Where can you get a GOOD burger or slice of pizza that isn't produced by the monopoly that is Riverwalk/Nonno's? Business on the island, in general, look shabby and are shabby because of poor design choices like these, and the fact that most are the only business of their type on the island. Roosevelt Island has potential to become such a magical place - we just need people with a real vision to be at the helm of these changes and not just the attitude of "this is falling apart so we need to replace it with something equally crappy".
Nobody lives at the post office, so it's not a "hanging out" area. As for removing the glass, take a look at the view of the video/general store from the bus stop near the church. Is that what you all want to see? I submit that as part of the master lease agreements there must be some rules for the kinds of display that shopkeepers may show, because quite frankly I'd rather see the ugly arcade windows than the storefront of that shop!
Have any of you seen the frameless glass enclosures on modern shower stalls? If H-R's architects and engineers were to do some serious research, I'm sure they could use that concept to find non-reflective, antiglare, shatterproof glass that doesn't have the disgusting, dirty and view obstructing metal frames on the current glass partitions. I submit that's what is really bugging people, not the fact that there is glass. Then, the arcade could still be protected while with the appropriate newer kinds of lighting the storefronts could still be seen from the street. Flourescent Lighting...F-ugly! Besides, there is newer, energy efficient and attractive lighting that could be used.
As for the ceilings, why introduce the wood which is out of character with the architecture. Imagine if part of the U.N. current renovation introduced wood paneling instead of the white masonry on Oscar Niemeyer's masterpiece to make it prettier! I agree that the current ceilings leave much to be desired, but installing out of character wood, which will require maintenance that we know RIOC is not capable of handling over the long run, find another solution which is more fitting with the current model.
And while they are at it, certainly the red address banners could be improved upon. Surely, H-R's architects must have taken the course in Architecture 101 that taught good architecture is about both form and function! I don't really see either in the current proposal: The form is ugly and out of character, and the function, which was part of the Roosevelt Island paradigm, isn't there either.
Jesse, we're all entitled to our opinions - even off-Islanders can and should comment on a design choice, or possible design fiasco, even if they are non-residents. Jackie O spearheaded, or at least lent her considerable cachet to, the rescue of Grand Central Station, and she didn't live there. Here's an informative link about Ms. Onassis' efforts re historic preservation in the 70s.
http://mas.org/awards/jkomedal/
Actually, I didn't entirely disagree with Maingal's disparaging remarks about the plastic planter decorations or the entire RIOC floral/plantings decoration program within the arcade. It is often tacky, but some of us, me included, may not mind tackiness in general, such as the tackiness of 99-cent stores, or Jack's. It is a class difference. The rich may never use plastic flowers or step foot in a dollar store: Neiman-Marcus or Sachs is more their speed. 70% of the residents of the Landings are not rich (since they qualify for Section 8 vouchers). Perhaps most of the 70% are not outright poor, but certainly, they are not rich. For the poor and many in the middle class, plastic flowers are just fine. For the record, 99-cent stores (in addition to thrift stores) are my favorite kind of store - you can conclude from those preferences that I self-identify as at least "not rich".
Maingal, a Rivercross resident if I am not mistaken, turns up her nose at anything across the street that might be taken as "poor" - poor floral decor, poor upkeep of the arcade, businesses catering to the poor, poor people - because it reflects poorly on the neighborhood, and consequently may have a negative impact on the property value of her nice coop. Well, RI is a mixed-income, multi-ethnic community (as Rick has put on the banner of his blog) and Maingal should have considered that when she purchased her apartment on Main St. It's going to take a long, long time before all the poor folks in Eastwood either die or move out... sorry, Maingal. Anyway, we know RIOC can put a little more originality or pizzazz in its plantings since we have the wonderful example of the plantings around the Tram Kiosk as proof. Also, Southpoint Park is magnificent. Maybe those involved with Southpoint Park and Ms. Berdy of the Historical Society could use their influence at RIOC to persuade Ms. Torres to put more interesting/better plant/flower choices into Eastwood arcade and its little gardens.
The Eastwood outdoor amphitheater is made of wood, which is, or has weathered to grey, a neutral hue, and blends in well with the building. If wood paneling must be put on the arcade ceiling, maybe Hudson could match it with that used in the amphitheater.
Here's a link that shows the Eastwood amphitheater http://islandshakespeare.com/about
I Live in Eastwood. AND I get. Sec 8. And I Make Over 70,000 per year. So Not every one getting sec 8 in Eastwood is poor
Thats Right I Know a person in Eastwood making Over. 100,000 per year. Getting sec 8
me to
If you are not happy with the wood you should protest with a letter to RIOC---If that gets you nowhere think about living somewhere else----Did you ever think that maybe no one cares about what you think--maybe you should keep busy with something else
Do you really know what you are talking about when it comes to modern architecture. What kind of credentials do you have. The glass panels suck.
I resent your making your comment a personal attack.
As I said, can't we all wait and see and be civilized and not resort to personal attacks. As you said, we are all entitled to our own opinion but to go on and on about etched glass and Jackie O, Neiman Marcus, rich vs poor, and you are implying that I am a snob!!! Who made you the arbiter of taste or modern architecture or design knowledge. Do you really think there is a chance that HR might actually take any advice from any of us!!! The Eastwood arcade has been an eyesore for years..most residents think so and we finally have someone willing to try something...GIVE IT A CHANCE...PLEASE!!!! I am so tired of the constant resistance to change on this Island. The FDR memorial is spectacular but has met with nothing but resistance from certain groups on the island...but wait to see how they will all fight to be at the ribbon cutting in October, especially if President Obama comes (a rumor I heard??)
This is the first time I have ever posted a comment anywhere and I regret it. Comments generally add nothing to the important conversation, but I love this Island that I have lived on for 30 years. I don't want to see Northtown ignored while so many new things are planned for our great and unique community.
By the way, It would be impossible to guess who I am from my post so I can only assume that the protected screen name is a joke and there are those who have special access...that's very ethical of this blog. I standby everything I have said in these comments.
By the way, I really wish I were rich....maybe you have heard of the 2008 crash, unemployment and peoples lives being destroyed. Never have been, never will be.
No more comments for me ever, brings out the worst in people.
Siscoeb - Nobody on this thread as far as I can tell is a registered architect or architectural historian. It doesn't mean we aren't entitled to our opinions and tastes in architecture and so forth. You think the glass panels suck - fine, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. Let me ask you this question: The panels, and the seating units into which they are built, highlight the window bays above each unit, do they not? Can you admit that these window-seat units are an extension of the bay windows above and as such are an integral feature of the facade. Perhaps today, almost 40 years after the building was constructed, the primary-color red with sans serif white lettered shop signs look a little "dated"; then again, any building more than 10 or 15 years old looks "dated". That's what happens after a while. The decision is if a building has architectural value and if so, to what extent should its look, and especially its facade be preserved. We have a Landmarks Board which is set up for this very purpose here and in many other cities across the US. Otherwise, notable structures would go the way of the late lamented neoclassical/Beaux Art gem Penn Sta. So my question to you is: Do you think Eastwood, taken as an entity, as a design concept, do you think it has architectural merit (as the AIA guidebook thinks) or do you think it sucks and so a feature like the window-seat combo units are not worth preserving? If you think the entire building sucks, then answer me this: What is the point of you discussing a point like the windows in the arcade if you hate Eastwood? Why get involved in the thread?
RIOC and Hudson probably read the blog posts (I suppose) just as they read the Wire. RIOC gave Hudson something like 2 mil to redo/rehab various facets of Main St - the strip that Hudson now controls - to make it more "presentable" presumably. But Hudson can always opt out if the money-making aspect of the deal falls through - i.e. if it seems no merchants are going to be leasing the stores. So RIOC, for the time being, is "absolved of responsibility" of whatever happens or does not happen to the look of Main St., quite a convenient position for RIOC in case the rehab job ends up appalling. What should really happen is let Hudson finish the one bay then hold another Town Meeting on the look. This Town Meeting we should all really make an effort to get the whole community out (especially those from Eastwood) to comment on the planned changes. Depending on if the attendees express approval or disapproval, Hudson should either forge ahead or modify the rehab plan. I never trusted the so-called questionnaire that Hudson presented as evidence of the community's desire to change the arcade at the first Town Hall meeting, since he collected the questionnaires, he tallied the results, and he interpreted the data. In other words, he could have tweaked the info any way he wanted or even made up info to suit his purposes. A questionnaire can only be valid if it is carried out by a disinterested third party so to speak. Hudson could have slanted the results to suit/conform to his intention to radically redo the arcade - actually, I'm positive he did just that, why would he not? So, a show of either support or displeasure by the community at another Town Hall meeting is exactly what is needed once he finishes the one demo bay. If the people of Eastwood - and all of RI - want the arcade torn apart and paneled in wood, so be it. Some like the pseudo-retro look - maybe this is what Hudson is getting at with the wood paneling, which seems to hearken back to the 50s or 60s (not the mid-70s when the building was constructed).
That is the problem with our country today, totally absurd. Enjoy it while it lasts, as this and many other programs will be reduced or eliminated as the country is BROKE!!!!!!!
Well you made some valid points. I`ll have to reconsider. Perhaps my opinion sucks.
I did not attack you personally. I advised you with some options. How is that attacking you personally.
I think the wood is fine
I think your opinion as stated was a little too short. Perhaps you should add more substance to your writing.
Maybe you should stop complaining and write RIOC.
Will you water the plants
I like the wood paneling . I think the color is wonderful. If you are not happy perhaps you should move.
Screen names are protected and there is no special access to identities. Kitty must be guessing as to where you live based on her own assumptions. Hope you continue to comment and lend your voice.
By the way, I have been down to the Kahn/FDR Memorial Boondoggle and, in my opinion, it looks more like a cemetery than a park. However, if President Obama is there for the ribbon cutting, I hope to be there because President Obama is there, not to celebrate the opening.
I wonder how the wood will withstand the humidity. I don't mind the look.
There are a lot of people here who only care about their personal business and bully our community. They are also creating fear through our neighborhood. I personally know people who are actually afraid to voice their concerns. Thank you for your honest opinion.
Roosevelt Island is getting MONOPOLIZED. This is why the stores will be awful. No more mom's and pop's stores for us but terrible quality owned by the same people who care little since there will be zero competition for them...
Great, ill be there too if Obama comes:)
For thousands of years people gathered around the process of making food by the fire, story telling and gossiping. Why take that away from our old neighbors now? Why not allow them to sit around, because they're on wheel chairs? I saw a review on Roosevelt Island and someone called it creepy since there are too many wheelchairs around. That heartbreaking! Perhaps this is a very taboo subject but yes, the young working people willing to spend market rate to live here are turned off by the sight of our seniors. Is this what we've become?? Eliminating this sitting area will therefore displace the elderly and "hide" them from view so that the property becomes more attractive. It's just an elegant way to hide this people away without really having to word it.
Sicoeb, these buildings have been designed by Phillip Johnson. In case you don't know who this fascinating architect is, he's designed so many wonderful buildings that you see in Manhattan every day. He has also designed the very first plans of what Roosevelt Island was going to be. While these plans were not very efficient or contingent with the number of population anticipated, the project was carried on by the wonderful city/urban planner Ed Logue whose idea of utopian neighborhood was that of an open space, i.e no separators between the working class and the middle class. Sadly, today in 2012 we are back to a prohibition type of thinking and some of us live in that fear of "the other". Some of us can't think outside the box.
the glass is transparent; the only difference between the glass and no glass is the wind and the rain. This glass has been shelter during rainy and windy days. Without the glass the walkway will be as the giant skeleton of a mammoth.
Also, there will be no snow in front of these businesses and that is less work for someone's back which is always a good thing;))
The management handymen water the plants, i've seen them do it often. Otherwise, I would not mind watering the plants. It is as easy a task could get
I think it is ok to mix architecture. Throughout Europe there is the trend of mixing already existing architecture from let's say the early 1900's to the Bauhaus with brand new, contemporary minimal style. This has been done in order to actually KEEP the old building's aura and beauty while also building more functional structures - eco friendly and easy to maintain- ON TOP of these old houses. At first, this seemed like a blasphemy although has been embraced after much debate. I must say these glass structures on top of old french victorian houses are simply fascinating. With this, I agree with redesigning to meet functionality while I definitely disagree with a changing a facade for a certain housing market needs.
with this, I don't hate the wood but I understand what Roosevelt Landings management is trying to do by wasting money on cheap ideas. They are little by little trying to make the building more attractive to potential renters. Get the old people out of the way, take the pictures from the Senior Center of the walls, painting layers on top of other tens of old layers in the hallways and putting those giant and pretty lights in the lobby. They don't understand that these changes are mere low quality band-aids. Cheap, quick changes while it takes 10 minutes to get downstairs because only one elevator is working at any time. There is no common sense here.
As I've previously mentioned, cheap quick band-aids! Just a coat of paint and 10 pieces of (hopefully) sealed wood. PATHETIC!
I don't believe the attempts to make Main Street more conducive to shopping/retail are in any way related to an attempt to "hide" any group of island residents. It's a legitimate attempt to make more efficient use of limited, high-value real estate.
The benches are not part of any resident's leased premises. They aren't promised as part of any amenity of which I am aware. Nor are they the only available seating. There are lots of options for people to gather (and a few, if you get there really early on the weekend, are even appropriate for cooking over fire). As such, RIOC, HR and UA are perfectly within their rights to renovate them as they see fit.
It would be nearly impossible to "hide" a group of residents (even if someone wanted to do so). Our island was designed to promote community - our centralized transportation makes it a near-certainty.
OOOO! Thank YOU, Carolyn. When I've mentioned MONOPOLY I was SCOLDED! I can't stand this monopoly, I will never buy anything from them again, ever, especially since I've seen a nicely laminated PRO TASER poster in the pizzeria. They are promoting the use of weapons while offering us low quality food. No matter where you'll go, you're putting money in the same pocket. Gone are the days of Mom's and Pop's. MONOPOLIZING IS ILLEGAL. Supposedly the ice cream shop will be their also.
If you are worried about the rain carry an umbrella. If you are worried about the wind wear a cut and hat.Another alternative is to live somewhere else
I still say Eastwood will look better without the glass and with the wood. Just because you throw a name around like Phillip Johnson doesn`t impress me. Your further comments about a utopian neighborhood is rediculous.Maybe you should move tor Russia
I think your opinion was a bit short. Perhaps you should write with more substance. Frankly I found your writing boring
Perhaps you should write to RIOC maybe they will change everything to your specifics if not you can always move and do me a favor.
If you think the sealed wood is PATHETIC and you are unhappy try taking a nap or move.
You can get away with that as a member of the press but in my opinion it's hypocritical. Memorials are not meant to be lighthearted, they reflect the serious nature of of the monumental decisions and times of those they commemorate. Lou Kahn, a world class architect and FDR one of the greatest presidents both represent huge changes that the world was experiencing as it entered the modern era. The choice of welfare island by the Roosevelt family for this memorial gave our island it's name...the memorial came first but took 40 years to achieve. Those who want to protect Eastwood from any changes to it's brutalist facade are also against Kahn, chosen at the same time as the Northtown architects and in the same school of modern, brutalism. The memorial is built on more landfill than land. The landfill came from the earth removed to make way for the construction of the WIRE buildings. I believe this memorial will finally put RI on the map. It is a spectacular place to walk along the river...lovely to sit and read on a bench under a tree. Compare that to the barren "park" just to it's north provided to us by RIOC. When there I feel like I am on a ship moving down the river which was the intention of all the original planners of the residential community. When I am in the room, I feel the importance, solemnity and the weight of FDR's words, the four freedoms, beautifully carved into the wall.....wow, chills. I guess a lot of people would be happier with a big statue surrounded by a lot of columns....been there done that. As I said before, change is good, but that's just my opinion.
So you're sitting here with the same answer for every person's post? This has been your answer to everyone. Seems you know nothing about the 1st Amendment or you do but are unable to connect the dots.
Checkout TERRIBLE signage at 568 Main. My kids' lemonade stand had better lettering. Let's see: the letters are set back (rather than the present red signs at the curb) so you can't see the storefront in advance; the letters are dark blue against a dark background, which makes them indistinguishable; the letters are small.
Up close, it looks like the sign is lighted, so instead of existing signs that are visible without lighting 24 hours a day, we now are getting signs that require lighting **even in daylight**. How energy inefficient ... really, it didn't take an experiment of actually building this to determine it was energy inefficient (and bad engineering).
I've heard the signage costs $4K. That's about $100K in bad signage for Main Street. Is H-R expecting the stores to pay $4K each?
Truly, children could have done better on the signage. H-R, who did your work?
The only consolation is that I can get a picture of something professionally installed that is really dumb ... a great teaching moment.
The only thing good about 568 Main Street is the wood paneling on the ceiling.
Perhaps you are unaware of the "diplomatic" and "political ways" in which this is actually happening.
but is it the look or the role of the glass that should be more important? The glass protects from the rain, obviously. If it rains out, which route do you take? The covered or uncovered one? Maybe I should move out if I don't like the wooden panels but if I like the glass I should move to Russia, LOL. How old are you?
So simplistic...
Bauhaus architecture went out with yesterdays newspapers. You have no concept of architecture in my opinion.Perhaps you should try ping pong.
Do you know what you are talking about. Your sentence "I don`t hate the wood" is silly. How can anyone hate wood. They may not like wood but ever heard of anyone hating wood. It sounds childish to me
Try taking a rest
try taking a rest
maybe you should take a nap
Let`s play Monopoly ...Did you pass go ...if so you should get 200 dollars
dot dot dot dash or ...dash See I connected the dots
Maybe you should open a lemonade stand
We did two weekends ago. All proceeds go to charity. The kids had a lot of fun.
LOL! This is a funny one. Anyway, ill be joining you on this, I'm sure it's really fun! Where do you usually do this and what time of the year, any special occasion?
No not simplistic more like simple minded...that`s me
The partially enclosed arcade is an extra advantage to Roosevelt Landings residents, who, on rainy days, can hop on a bus at the tram/train, get off on Main St and walk to their doors out of the rain vs. schlepping home in the rain and ending up soaked to the skin, umbrella or no umbrella. As a former RL resident, there were many times when I blessed the arcade for offering this bit of shelter at the end of a long workday.
Well this explains everything..
The signs will have to be lighted as they are totally dark at night, and most likely will have to be lighted in the daylight hours as well because of the shadows in the arcade. Perhaps Hudson has a "cool" lighting scheme to spring on us next. I don't see that these signs are useful in announcing the name of the store, because they are difficult to read. Is he going to make the stores pay for their new signs? As I've written before, the color of the wood paneling is dreadful. Although the signs are not helpful because they are dark - do not stand out - the style of the type is OK insofar as it is I suppose "of the moment" - I guess here Hudson is trying to instantly somehow render hip the businesses on Main St.
Cute sisco. I bet you're a management/RIOC/Hudson/PSD drone, posting humorous drivel in order to "defuse" the blog. Am I right? The more joking comments you post, the less seriously the blog is taken.
Ha, ha, ha, ha... try to comment about the posts, not about their length..
Yep. This is exactly the idea of removing the window-seat combos. I hope the seniors will bring out folding beach chairs to sit out on the sidewalk once the benches are removed.
Sorry Mark, I think you are wrong. Why do you think the benches were installed in the first place? They are an amenity, and a valuable one at that. You seem to have the smug attitude of a heartless yuppie sometimes, unfortunately. Why don't you try looking at the issue from the point of view of those less fortunate than yourself? Imagine if you were disabled, or elderly, or less wonderfully educated with a wonderfully privileged upper middle class background; or black - and having been discriminated against all your life and beaten down, no matter what you did. You are poor, living on a fixed income. Imagine that, Mark. Imagine living like that all your life, with time dragging by and seemingly mocking you, and then imagine you are in a small, not so great studio apartment in Eastview - with one of the few places you like to gather outside the confines of your small apartment about to be removed, because people like Mark, people who place real estate value over humanity, are in charge at HR, RIOC, and UA. How would you feel?
She's referring to modernist in general, genius - everyone knows the Bauhaus was a pre- WW2 movement in Germany. You should try reading her posts more carefully. She says she can accept mixing styles if it's done in a creative, interesting fashion.
Of course. The lobby upgrades were the beginning. Even before the lobbies were renovated, some of the benches were converted into planters - all in an effort to "prettify" the building to make it more attractive to potential renters. There's a huge amount of money involved in making RL and the other buildings in the Putnam Portfolio (which UA manages) successful since at the time, it was the largest amount of money spent on a purchase of a group of residential properties - just at the top of the housing bubble, before 2008. I'm sure the building is probably underwater by now because of the overall decline in housing values. UA and the consortium behind the purchase would love to flip the building and get out of the note. The only way they can do that is to get the building up to speed - make it appear "safe" at least insofar as the hanging out is concerned - so as to get more high-paying tenants in. Once it is truly producing tons of money as a market-rate building, they'll flip it.
The neighborhood was pretty much OK until you and your ilk moved in. You don't like mixed income neighborhoods - then you should move back to the nice, safe, plain vanilla neighborhood you came from.
Best to ignore sisco, NoTaseMe. He is obviously trying to undermine the blog by repeatedly posting the same "humorous" comments no matter what is said - it's an effort to make the blog and all the commenters on it appear ridiculous, so that nothing we say is taken seriously. He is the virtual equivalent of a heckler. Guess what happens to hecklers eventually - they get booted out, since they do not contribute anything meaningful to the discussion.
Excellent - it is possible to reason with you.
I have, in the past, been both wheelchair-bound and incredibly poor. I am not a heartless yuppie; I am a realist.
Without some sort of obligation to provide the benches, if they stand in the way of maximizing the value of the real estate, there is no reason not to remove them. RIOC and HR have a pretty strong duty to residents and the State to collect as much as they can in revenue from this property.
I also question, since they have been changed numerous times over the years, whether the benches are actually part of the original design.
I understand that *you* want the benches. I understand that a portion of those who live in and around the building may want every single bench to remain. It's ok to want that. It's ok to ask for and demand that. It's not ok to use racism, clasisms or personal insult to advocate that.
What you haven't done is frame a convincing or persuasive argument. There will certainly still be seating even if the entire area is renovated. While your favorite spot might be moved, you're not entitled to dictate that it stay. What earth-shattering consequence comes from being asked to congregate in a different spot?
I have an odd work schedule and often leave or return from work at "non-rush" times. I rarely see any significant number of people (of any kind, creed or vintage) making widespread use of the built-in benches. At best, it's a few people here and there. I find it hard to imagine that the redesign plans aren't going to provide sufficient space for that.
I don't think you understand what "mixed income" means. By definition a mixed income community consists of lower, middle and upper-income residents, as ours does today.
Sisco is hilarious. And if you think HE is the one ruining the credibility of this blog, you couldn't be more wrong. He uses humor (as do I) to deal with the outrageous and dramatic statements made on here.
I love how "OK" is what you strive for and were happy with. And I wonder the outrage had anyone on here reffered to anyone in Eastwood etc as "your ilk"
when you blessed the arcade did you use holy water or dish water
I`m in a safe neighborhood right here on Roosevelt Island. Also I enjoy the diversity so much that I wouldn`t be wasting my time taking wood pannelling so serious- Perhaps you should move instead of complaining.Try taking a nap.
With the mixing styles. Does that come with French Frys on the side?
I found your comments here very interesting--zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz pardon me for snoring
Right. So if there's a leak above the wood panels... How will they replace the damaged wood, which WILL eventually rot away.
I don't think they thought out the LONG TERM for the cieling.
It's a horrible idea to put wood floors upside down! It's means to be walked on not looked at!
It's not a fancy bistro with wood panels on the wall or something.
NEST OPTION PLEASE,
The glass panels in the arcade indisputably afford shelter from the rain. Why is Hudson removing them - to the detriment of the community? So the stores can be more visible? In other words, Hudson places the profits he can generate from the rent payments from stores, over the protection of the residents - Profits before People.
Good point, Jimmy! And RL tends to leak (unfortunately).
Sal, you are no sisco. You usually make sense. Sisco doesn't - ever.
Well don't fall asleep on us sweetie - we just couldn't do without your insightful comments on the socio-economic problems of RI, and how Hudson may exacerbate them by removing the amenity of the comfy benches...
It's Hudson that should do the community a favor and leave the arcade alone.. or at least find a less egregious way to renovate it.
By removing the benches, Hudson is assisting UA to keep the so-called "riff-raff" as well as any other so-called "undesirables" such as elderly, disabled, minority - hidden from view. What yuppie would want neighbors that are "low class" or poor? Why their children might actually talk to a black person that way! Once the "problem" population is denied a place to rest in the arcade, the Landings can then be marketed as an upscale haven to potential renters.
"if they stand in the way of maximizing the value of the real estate, there is no reason not to remove them" - even if removing them means removing the folks who use them - this isn't heartless?
You should re-think what it means to live and let live - sometimes it doesn't provide the highest revenue, but it's the price of social peace.
The bottom line is not the only determinant of value, and it certainly wasn't the determinant of who is allowed to live on RI - but I guess you would not understand that. If it were up to you, there would be no poor people on RI, right? And we would all be happy paying exorbitant rents to Hudson, if it were up to you - on RI, a developer's mecca.
Profit rules your "morality" - which is why it will always be necessary for those who do not live by the calculator to struggle against those who only live for the dollar.
No way.. the new arcade is going to be far too elegant, too exclusive for that!
Do tell. You enjoy the diversity but don't want diverse people sitting on the benches, because looking at the storefrontsis more enjoyable than providing an amenity for the people. I wonder who will benefit most from getting rid of the benches? Is it Hudson, or UA?
It's best applied to a troll like sisco, Sal. Who knows - he may be an Eastwood resident for all we know..
When are you going to introduce yourself?
Profits create jobs for people.Maybe you need a job instead of complaining.
Me to. I hope the seniors bring beach balls too.
I think your message was a bit short.Perhaps you should elaborate a little more.After I read with you wrote I started snoring. I never read anything so boring. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Yeah, well they don't seem to be creating too many jobs lately.
Youmay spot me- or my smile - curled up on an arcadeabenchoccasionally.
At last, sisco has contributed a meaningful comment to the blog - compared with sisco's usual comments.. Or is that just the humming sound of sisco's router..
The residents - of all colors and all economic layers - will no doubt continue to fill the arcade, much to the dismay of Hudson - since his megalomaniac obsession to turn RL into an extension of Southtown, is just not going to work out even if the benches are removed. Why is that? You can remove the benches, but you can't remove the people. So let the elderly and the poor sit out on beach chairs - they will then be visible just like before - still making the block cringe-worthy - as far as Hudson is concerned..
no one on Roosevelt Island is an undesirable and that goes for you and me. There you go again with your class warfare---try jogging and burn some energy.
I agree I`m going to bring seven chairs and fourteen beach balls and sit out for 20 hours a day. I welcome everyone to join me. I`m making lunch for at least 30 people. I`ll be out there on 1/1/2013 kicking off the new year. don`t forget to bring your beach balls.
No I`m not part of RIOC or management. The only drivel being posted is coming from you. If you don`t like what Hudson is doing is understandable but what are you going to do about it. All you do is whine with your useless comments. I`m perfectly happy with the Hudson moves. Maybe you should start a protest movement against Hudson. This way you will find out that no one will listen to you because you only speak and write drivel.
I think you`re perfectly suited to run a lemonade stand. It may be the best thing you ever did. Good luck I think you will do well squeezing lemons.It could be a lemon squeezing a lemon.
With the exception of a select few, I've never seen/read so many pathetic, complaining, whining posts as I see on this site. Look people, everyone needs to get a grip. Change is coming to the Island whether you like it or not. This is not about who has lived here for "X" number of years, or whether we should have glass arcades or wood ceilings. This is about making life on this Island better for everyone who lives here. We are finally getting retail life to the desolate and neglected Main Street corridor and most of the people want to bitch, whine and cry over aesthetics. Get real people. Everyone cried and complained over how neglected Main Street was and now that someone is doing something to address the problem, all most can do is complain about glass & wood. Unreal. This Island is finally moving out of the 1970s, accept it or live in denial. And for those who think that we are moving towards an all affluent/rich population, please wake up. This is not the Upper East Side and no wood or lack of glass will ever change that. THANK YOU HUDSON RELATED, this is long overdue!!!!!
NYC - Everyone's entitled to their opinion. The wood paneling on the ceiling is both tacky and impractical. My preference would be a matte metallic finish - possibly stainless steel, for durability. I also favor bright fluorescent lighting in the arcade. It's a matter of taste - which varies with every individual. When people express an opinion about the arcade, it's not complaining - it's critiquing the Hudson prototype. It seems the wood paneling has not gone over well - will Hudson actually listen to any of the negative comments about it? I doubt it. Some want the glass panels removed, others think they should stay. Once Hudson removes them, the arcade will be a very ordinary and desolate colonnade, even with the rehabbing. The window/seat combo units gave the arcade a unique, and cozy character, which the rather tourist-schlock looking benches proposed by Hudson, will not. Once the arcade is ruined, RIOC can blame Hudson, and Hudson can simply say, well, we did invite community feedback, and see, we have hundreds of survey responses saying people wanted the panels removed. Natch - Hudson tabulated the surveys ... interprets the data... so you can be sure the survey results were "massaged" so as to support Hudson's design intentions... and possibly RIOC's intentions to get rid of the benches as well (and not have to take the blame for it)..
Sisco - Well, at least your posts are starting to make a little more sense, even if you still come off as a Hudson drone. There's nothing anyone can do about Hudson's moves except point out the design deficiencies of the prototype arcade bay. Besides the design problems, the removal of the window-seats represents a diminution of the public socializing space in the arcade, which will not be adequately replaced by the "themed" island-shaped benches Hudson has proposed. A rather simple, even severely designed amenity of the window-seat units is being removed, which served its purpose well in affording functional, protected seating for the diverse community for many years. Actually, these units are still in excellent shape - no doubt thanks to the glass panels, which protected them all these years. Instead of basing his rehab on these wonderful window-seat combo units, Hudson is instead taking a page out of other "touristy" updates of malls and so forth around the country. Eastwood is not South St. The phoniness of trying to pretend that RI has a maritime past is unbelievable. RI was never a maritime hub in its long and checkered history. So trying to foist this "identity" on to the island is a further travesty by Hudson. Anyway, it seems Hudson's intention is to transform the arcade into a tourist "trap" with the wood paneling, the "cute" island-shaped benches and so forth so as to associate the place with the sea, and banish the reality that it is part of an extremely well-designed and progressive housing project.
Certainly the post was not intended to please or entertain you, sisco. If you do not wish to be "bored" then simply stop re-reading the same posts over and over again. You are trying to dilute the impact of the blog by continually posting childish messages. As I've written before, this is equivalent to trolling and eventually trollers are barred from posting their nonsensical comments, just as newspapers would never bother to print messages such as yours.
If you think the arcade is an eyesore, what would you do about Motorgate, which RIOC has also not properly kept up for years? Your thinking - of destroying an integral part of the innovative architecture of Eastwood - is not constructive. If it were up to you, Motorgate would be leveled "because it's been an eyesore for years" right? Maingal - structures are not demolished because they haven't been kept up. They are instead scrubbed, and yes, renovated - but in a sensitive way so as to preserve as much as possible the original character of the original, just as the Chapel of the Good Shepherd was renovated 30 or so years ago in such as way as to preserve its original character.
I think the FDR Memorial is a fitting tribute to one of our greatest Presidents.I do think it will be on a par with the wonderful memorials to Lincoln & Jefferson in Washington, which are beautiful as well as indeed somber and monumental. Like them, the FDR Memorial will be a place of reflection and inspiration and will undoubtedly draw countless visitors from around the world - and rightly so.
Laugh all you want - it's not going to change reality: RI is not the Upper East Side, and never will be. It's also not a tourist "paradise" - it's simply a community that at least previously cared about its elderly, disabled, poor residents, by affording them the amenity of the enclosed benches in the arcade. Maybe this seems a minor point - but in the context of the original scheme, the so-called Master Plan whereby the island was originally re-developed by the UDC, and which set aside a specific ratio of RI housing for the poor and/or lower-middle-class, it's a significant diminution of the shared communityspace in Eastwood, which was of course specifically designed and built for people of moderate income, with a focus on the elderly and disabled. But, it seems, some people - sisco obviously included - just don't care if a relatively minor "perk" that is actually also an integral part of the building's design and communal purpose - is taken away from so many who have so very little otherwise.
They're certainly not desirable if they can't pay the rents Hudson charges, and UA collects from market-rate tenants. Landlord greed knows no limits. There are currently thousands of newly developed buildings in Brooklyn and elsewhere in the 5 boroughs sitting empty, because they cannot be leased/sold at the high prices demanded by the developers. This is adding to the housing crisis in NYC. The developers could rent them out as affordable - but they refuse to do so. Some of these buildings are in the middle of gentrifying neighborhoods that are still however filled with poor people - such as Brownsville or East New York, Brooklyn. Imagine what a long-term Brooklyn resident must feel looking at these empty buildings - monuments to developer greed really, which the developer refuses to rent as affordable - while the poor next door continue to subsist in substandard housing.. Imagine this, and imagine it multiplied thousands of times in the the consciousness of poor people throughout the five boroughs. There is potentially plenty of new housing available for people to move to - but it's unaffordable, and thus it stands empty, because of landlord greed. This is not talk of class warfare or conflict - this is the reality of what is occurring today throughout the city: Developers want tenants/buyers or groups of them, to lease wildly overpriced apartments. If they can't get the prices they demand, they would rather those apartments remain empty "until the market improves" and to h__l with the poor people living in substandard housing next door that could have been housed in those units.. They developer would rather lose millions than rent to a poor man, or a disabled man, or an elderly man. The developer is confident the poor will eventually die off anyway and thus will eventually no longer be a "problem" insofar as he might have to accept lower rents on a portion of his apartments (something occasionally mandated by law) and thus lose some profit - so very bad for the bottom line. The developer figures, meanwhile, let's just take away their benches so the assorted poor types, the financially "undesirable" residents, are denied a place to converse/socialize and thus don't "frighten away" the potential high-rolling renters we want to draw in...
You are 100% right CheshireKitty, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think the current look of Main Street is ugly as hell. I love the new look and can't for all that glass crap to be taken down. Thankfully it's finally happening. I guess we can agree to disagree.
Do you know what you're even talking about? You think tourist come here to sit in the "historical" concrete seats? Akin to removing the WG from WFC, your funny. The tourists that come here, if they see a Subway, they will flock to it because thats what they know.
Maybe if you move far away RIOC will keep the benches. Think about it`s an even trade. You are gone and benches stay.
Do you work. maybe you need a job. Try sweeping the side walks. you need to keep busy. try weeding the garden.If none of that works move off roosevelt island.
Just because your writing is boring there is no reason for you to be nasty. My comments are backed by the first amendment. Freedom of speech. I never called anyone a name. You wrote Siscoe = schill for RIOC. Maybe they should through you off the blog for slandering my good name. I`m a pillar of the society. You complained about Motorgate being dirty.Perhaps you should get broom and a mop and clean it up. p.s. Don`t forget the soap.
why don1t you get a broom and mop and clean up Motorgate-Don`r forget the soap.
1
The wood could have been pressure treated (or some similar process). Also, I would imagine replace a plank would be as easy as pulling it down and putting a new one up.
If you don't like what others have to say then don't read them. You are the one complaining about what everyone else writes.
who are you? id love to meet you over coffee!
100% agreed. Let's get some coffee!
I agree with Kitty. On both ideas.
America= Maximized Value= Burst Bubble. Quality of life IS NOT about maximizing value!
Do you like the Mom and Pop stores that are here now?
I wish we could make them better to be honest:) They should take suggestions from the residents.
Kitty, let's get coffee!
That'sa ridiculousexcusefor a reply, or rathernon-reply. Sinc e you can't address or offer anycriticism, valid or not, of what I'vewritten, and silence is often interpretted as assent, then youmust agree with my post.
Well - the Winter Garden is a glass-roofed structure suited to the WFC; the glass-enclosed seating areas of Eastwood in their own humble way are suited to Eastwood. Do you really think tourists are going to go out of their way to come to RI to see ordinary apartment blocks such as those at Southtown? These types of buildings are found all over the world. Eastwood is unique and progressive, most definitely including the spacious glass-enclosed socializing areas in its arcade. It's much more likely visitors will be interested in seeing this unique architecture or any of the island's other famous landmarks such as the Chapel, the Lighthouse, or the Renwick Ruin, rather than non-descript high-rises. Eastwood is listed in the AIA guide - as you no doubt are aware, and gets a good write-up.
Finally, to say that tourists will flock to yet another Subway is laughable. No doubt they will eat at the Subway, but they will not visit RI to eat at the particular Subway on RI. That's just ridiculous. Also, the Subway would be visible even if the glass was still in the arcade. If visibility was a problem, the obvious solution is to increase and improve the lighting in the arcade, and to put new commercial signage up at the window-bays.
If that's so, then post a link to even a mention of your works on-line, Mr. Siscoe.
Oh, sure, sure.. pillar of society and all that. You say you're even a published author. If so, please let us know which of your written works have appeared in print.
Interesting idea!
LOL - why not?
Thank you; kitties only sip milk, however..
Tea is better for me.
Mr. Lyon, I regularly see people use the Eastwood benches. Quantitatively, compared to the plaza benches, I'd estimate there are at least five times more usage of the Eastwood benches than the plaza benches.
Maybe we can get some actual numbers.
Mr. LaRoche, you are absolutely right. If you walk the arcade, you'll see water leaks every 5-10 feet. Hey, maybe those building engineers knew something 40 years ago when they provided removable paneling.
And Eastwood really leaks, that is the main reason why the library wants to move rather than expand within Eastwood.
On the last day of H-R's Andrew Jackson, I heard him speaking with a merchant about ongoing water leaks and understanding the process for getting them fixed. In short, it was a complicated answer: something I've said all along about the whole master lease process adding another layer of complexity, which makes the space itself unattractive (in a business relationship/operations sense).
So once the leaks start, you'll see the same kind of patchiness on the wood, and you'll see a mix of old and new wood as it is maintained. Two or three years from now, you'll be just as disappointed in the look.
I agree the wood looks nice. However, if you were a homeowner, would you be paying for this solution, knowing the ongoing maintenance issues? Probably not. I think H-R needs a solution that is easier to maintain in light of the leaky Eastwood building.
Here's what the AIA Guide to New York City actually says about Eastwood (http://bit.ly/PEKSDA):
"[O4d] Roosevelt Landings/originally Eastwood, 510, 516, 536, 546, 556, 566, 576 and 580 Main St. E side, opp. 'Big Allis,' generator of Consolidated Edison. 1976. Sert, Jackson & Assocs. Main Street is here defined on its east side largely by this mega-wall of undulating concrete block apartments, deftly detailed with red accents. Housing built for low-, middle-, and moderate-income tenants, it feels less like New York City and more like Helsinki. Huge, it is the overlord to the little Good Shepherd across the street."
Beyond the fact that every building on the Island is included in the guide, including the new buildings in Southtown, I don't know what's so "good" about Eastwood's write-up. It's referred to as a "mega-wall of undulating concrete" and an "overlord" to the Chapel of the Good Shepherd. Even if it's "deftly detailed with red accents," I don't think the comparison with Helsinki is a positive one. Further along in the Roosevelt Island section, the guide says that "most of the Main Street architecture tends to blur together in the mind's eye."
Here's what the AIA Guide to New York City actually says about Eastwood:
http://bit.ly/PEKSDA
"[O4d] Roosevelt Landings/originally Eastwood, 510, 516, 536, 546, 556, 566, 576 and 580 Main St. E side, opp. 'Big Allis,' generator of Consolidated Edison. 1976. Sert, Jackson & Assocs. Main Street is here defined on its east side largely by this mega-wall of undulating concrete block apartments, deftly detailed with red accents. Housing built for low-, middle-, and moderate-income tenants, it feels less like New York City and more like Helsinki. Huge, it is the overlord to the little Good Shepherd across the street."
Beyond the fact that every building on the Island is included in the guide, including the new buildings in Southtown, I don't know what's so "good" about Eastwood's write-up. It's referred to as a "mega-wall of undulating concrete" and an "overlord" to the Chapel of the Good Shepherd. Even if it's "deftly detailed with red accents," I don't think the comparison with Helsinki is a positive one. Further along in the Roosevelt Island section, the guide says that "most of the Main Street architecture tends to blur together in the mind's eye."
How do we get in touch?
How can we get in touch but also remain anonymous here? Do we email Roosevelt islander directly?
If you both wish, email me with your contact info and I wlll send it to the other person.
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