No More Roosevelt Island Seniors and Disabled Shoppers Bus To Costco and Long Island City Soon - Service Will Be Terminated As Part Of RIOC's New Main Street Retail Master Leaseholder Agreement With Hudson Related
Image of Long Island City Costco From Roosevelt Island via Bridge & Tunnel Club
Did you know that the Roosevelt Island Operating Corp (RIOC) provides a shoppers bus for senior citizen and disabled residents? According to RIOC:
The Shoppers Bus service is available for seniors and disabled persons every Tuesday and Wednesday at the Senior Center (546 Main Street). Seniors and/or aide must have identification available before boarding the bus. Children are not allowed to ride the Shoppers Bus. Adults 18 and over will be allowed on the SB only if they are assisting a senior or disabled person. COSTCO shoppers must bring shopping bags and/or cart for groceries.That is about to change with the new Roosevelt Island Main Street Retail Master Leaseholder Agreement. As first reported by Roosevelt Island Residents Association (RIRA) Planning Committee Chair Frank Farance commenting on this post:
Participants of the Shoppers Bus are encouraged to notify the Senior Center 1 day in advance prior to boarding. Please contact Rema Townsend, Director of the Senior Center, at 212-980-1888 to be added to the SB list.
...I've heard that RIOC is required to discontinue the seniors' shoppers bus because of a contract provision in the master lease agreement. (I'm waiting for written confirmation on this....In order to find out if it was true that the Shoppers Bus was being discontinued, on October 26 I sent the following message to RIOC President Leslie Torres:
Is it true that as part of the Roosevelt Island Main Street Retail Master Leasehold Agreement with Hudson Related, RIOC has agreed to discontinue the Seniors Shopper's Bus? If so, why and when will the Shoppers Bus be terminated?and followed up earlier today with the same message. Have not received a reply as of the time of this post.
Please provide a copy of the Main Street Retail Master Leasehold Agreement so that I can make it public on the Roosevelt Islander Blog.
Thank You.
This morning, I sent the following message to the Hudson/Related Master Leaseholder Principal David Kramer:
I have been advised that the Roosevelt Island Shoppers Bus that transports Senior Citizens and Disabled people from Roosevelt Island to stores in Long Island City is required to be terminated by RIOC according to the terms of the Main Street Retail Master Lease Agreement.Within hours, Mr. Kramer replied:
Is that true? If so, do you have any comment for the Roosevelt Islander Blog on the reason why this service is being terminated and when will the Shoppers Bus be terminated?
Thank you.
The retail study report recommended ending the Shopper's Bus. It was memorialized in the recent lease agreement, but the genesis was the retail consultant's recommendation.More information on the Roosevelt Island Main Street Retail report referenced in Mr. Kramer's reply is here. Below is the retail consultant's, Phillips Preiss Shapiro Associates, recommendation regarding the Roosevelt Island Shoppers Bus (page 34):
... RIOC operates a “Shopper’s Bus”, which departs at 10:30 a.m. on Monday and Tuesday mornings and that takes residents to the Broadway Shopping Center, at the intersection of 21st Street and Broadway.This shopping center is also within walking distance of the Broadway business district. Once a month, the Shopper’s Bus travels to the Costco Wholesale store located at Vernon Boulevard and Broadway, although given its infrequency, this service is primarily geared towards and used by more elderly shoppers.While the “Shopper’s Bus” is an excellent service for those residents who utilize it, it clearly represents a major source of leaked spending.The RIOC should consider strategies to shift some of this spending to Main Street. One idea would be to eliminate the bus and provide coupons and other subsidies to elderly, disabled and low-income residents to encourage Main Street spending....
34 comments :
There is a certain truth to this statement that the bus should be discontinued and keep the shoppers on the island. I sure hope they will get the timing right and have retail that is comparable to what's available at the Broadway Shopping Center available on the island BEFORE they discontinue the bus.
It's kind of dumb, though, to blindly follow whatever some consultant suggested. Typical short-sighted capitalism at work. We'll see how this all shakes out.
Since not one store has signed on as we understand and it will be months before any store opens on the island the ceasing of the shoppers bus is a disgrace. I want to see some real good shopping on island before and if the shoppers bus is elimated.
You do not need the seniors to make the stores a success.YOu need the families with greater spending power and more
income to make the retail a success.
Will we be seeing the banning of Fresh Direct next?
It is apparent that the consultants do not understand what a variety of shopping options means. There will still be
off island shopping no matter what stores come to the island.
Mr. Kramer sho8uld put the screws to Mr. Catsimatidis of
Gristedes immediately to improve the store.
H-R and the current RIOC organization seem not to understand "Roosevelt", as in FDR...you know...the pres who had polio! I guess they were of the generation that never learned history and didn't know that this community was built as a planned community where the disabled could be mainstreamed and independent, not gentrified and yuppy-fied! Stopping the bus, especially before other stores are here is pure greed. As for the arcade windows outside of Eastwood, perhaps Kramer and company should try something different for lunch!
New Yorkers, even those of means, are price-sensitive, and will shop for the lowest price as well as highest quality. That is why Costco is bucking the recessionary trend of less shopping, and why so many people that have money shop there. Costco is of course a godsend for those on fixed income, or even low-income shoppers - since buying in bulk at lower cost stretches scarce dollars. If RIOC discontinues the shoppers' bus, I would be happy to donate money to a fund-raising effort to buy a RISA bus or minivan, which could continue to provide transportation to Costco /Queens shopping destinations.
Or even better yet, write a request for Public Purpose Funds to pay for a used bus to replace the shoppers bus. In other words, ultimately RIOC would pay for the bus, which circumvents the provision in the Master Lease, and the seniors, disabled, and others get to have a bus to avoid the high prices that are certain to come with market rate rents. Still thinking out aloud, it might be cheaper for non-seniors/non-disabled to chip in for a bus than to pay the higher prices, sort of a Fresh Direct in reverse. And ditto for food trucks to put local pressure to keep prices down. Presumably Mr. Kramer would wholeheartedly agree with this approach because he believes the market should determine what survives, right? :-)
what will the useless people of the rira do about this .i am sure they cannot do anything . once hudson related begins to deal with these fools and will see what a useless band of misfits they all are ,beginning with matt katz who needs to get a life, i can tell you right now matt katz will act like he is upset about this and that the rira will do something about this ,yea right,the rira are a band of people with boring lives,who need to get a life. rioc pays them no mine and hudson related will pay them no mine also.the only good thing about the rira,is that they are doing nothing for nothing ,so thats a good thing.
This agreement with the pigs at Hudson & Related is a disgrace. All because RIOC and their battery of lawyers and administrators was too incompetent & lazy to keep control of their own rental spaces. Obviously any reasonable interpretation of the "Public Authority Act" would have protected the board from any claims that they had violated it, by offering rentals to reasonable businesses at reasonable rents.
Instead we are stuck with these venal sob's at H&R that have never given a damn about anything but their own profits.
Why not just flip all the cards over - let H&R run the whole damn Island. They would fix the Church Plaza and the Copa Field retaining wall a hell of lot faster than the RIOC bozo's have.
Here we go - RIVAA out Dunkin Donuts in. Let the seniors eat donuts.
I personally think RI hasn't been what it used to be a couple decades ago for a very long time. NYC in general hasn't been the same either. I do not subscribe to the idea that RI is supposed to stand for something and that this island needs to be understood. I think it is up to us residents to adjust to the changes time brings us. It is about time that somebody comes in and makes drastic changes to this neighborhood. It needs a major overhaul.
I'd love to have an occasional donut and the seniors I know do, too. Should the RIVAA move out of the current space and make room for something more profitable? My family (especially my oldest kid) love the gallery, don't get me wrong, but from a pure business point of view, yes, they have to trade their premier street exposure for something more affordable (or come up with the money it takes, of course). Did anybody expect anything else when a profit-motivated master lease holder takes charge?
"To avoid the high prices that are certain to come with market rate rents," Frank? Have you looked at the prices we're paying at the stores that exist with steeply discounted rents -- or, in the case of the hardware store, no rent at all? Islanders are already being gouged by the state-subsidized retailers we have. At least with tenants paying market-rate rents, the prices, if not lower, will be understandable.
Not sure I agree.
(1) Even free rent doesn't imply free merchandise.
(2) Increasing costs, such as rent, increases prices (or reduces profitability).
(3) What is the difference between "state subsidy" retailing and "H-R cross-store subsidy" retailing? In both cases the profitability is being artificially increased by the subsidy: with RIOC by lowering costs, OR by H-R having large profit stores in other H-R properties subsidize the profit of weaker stores on Roosevelt Island. Neither is in-the-clear a free market retailer without subsidy. (Note: Similar arguments are made in international trade disputes.)
I am alarmed to hear about the possible demise of the shoppers' bus. For many of those who use it, I assume that they are doing so for the chance to get off the island for awhile and have a day out, as well as shop. Taking away a service for the elderly and disabled for the bottom line is heartless. This is just a small example of the larger trend of our congress wanting to tamper with social security and medicare. Why should the elderly and disabled be the ones to bear the brunt of insuring greater profits for H/R? Remember, we ultimately have the power - we can "vote with our feet" and not patronize H/R stores if we are people of a certain age or mobility challenged.
I also am tired of reading the insults toward RIRA. I am a council member who has a bit of a life and am volunteering my time to improve life for people in my building. Instead of kvetching about us, please do something proactive to make changes. Join a committee and help.
I agree, it is pretty sad when Duane Reade has the cheapest 6 pack around - both the super market and the bodega are like 13 bucks for one. I think Gristedes had a six pack of Guiness 'on sale' or ~12 bucks, and at Duane Reade the regular press is 11.50.
What's the difference what the difference is? RIOC has failed to fill the storefronts; maybe H-R can succeed.
Jesse Webster & Westviewer: It's not just about the so-called "marketplace" where merchants battle it out and the result can only be Good (not!). It's also about our diverse community, it's diverse needs, and members of the community not suffering from this battle.
However, losing the shoppers bus is a result of this desire for a marketplace battle, and having too expensive stores with no alternatives is another possible result. Being dogmatic against subsidies doesn't help, and merely filling stores can cause harm, too.
My argument is that the existing retailers are selling at an unreasonable margin given their costs.
Like fare increases on the NYC Subway, high prices keep customers away, requiring additional price increases to maintain revenue.
Beyond the head start they get from subsidized rent, there are steps these retailers could take to reduce their prices to be at least competitive with stores like Duane Reade.
For instance, they could look to other wholesale sources which might sell to them more cheaply.
Gristedes has the benefits both of city-wide scale and state-subsidized rent. It's not reflected in their pricing.
The retailers we have seem to look at Islanders as a captive audience, and the stakes have been too low for them to honestly compete for customers on price, store cleanliness, etc. The bodega and hardware store don't even bother to lift the gates over their windows when they are open -- as if Main Street is so dangerous it requires them to operate from inside a cage.
Market rents aren't going to solve all of our problems Having a landlord who enforces leases and values the commercial real estate and quality of life on this Island, and who has a stake in filling the storefronts with merchants who will be successful, will go a long way toward revitalizing main street.
yes, because we are a captive audience, competition amongst retailers can not exist except in the case of eateries. The retail space will have to be comprised of boutique style or specialty shops to fill specific desires and wants of the community.
If places like Gristedes are forced to uphold their lease agreements, the quality of their merchandise and service will improve. It has to. Otherwise their business will deteriorate and they will close.
Prior to H-R, the existing retailers could get away with sub-standard service because their rents were so low or not enforced, so there was no real impact on the wallet. M & D was supposed to renovate and upgrade their store when they signed a new lease with RIOC a couple of years ago. Not surprisingly, this never happened.
H-R is on the right track. The biggest challenge they face is picking the right mix of stores.
I agree on some points. I've always been puzzled about this mythical enforcement of lease provisions to get Gristede's to do better on price and selection. Can you let us know what provisions they are violating?
I ask this because it sounds nice in theory, but if it doesn't really exist, then H-R will have equal difficulty. I didn't get the impression that H-R had a short list of violations that are ready to enforce. Maybe you can shed light on the provisions?
I disagree with you Jesse. The stores on Main St are conveniently located; I cannot always drop everything to drive to Home Dept for a piece of hardware, thus the General Store fulfills a vital need.
BTW - it is not overpriced. It is roughly on the level of regular mom-n-pop Manhattan hardware stores. It is definitely not as cheap as Home Depot - but it is not possible (nor desirable) to have a Home Depot on RI. In general you can find most hardware store needs in the General Store, pretty much fairly & competitively priced. In addition, the General Store carries tons of inexpensive goods such that you might find in discount stores in Chinatown or Queens. These items also fill a need - permitting residents to purchase inexpensive knapsacks, caps, mufflers, and the like, without having to go to Queens or 14th St or some other inexpensive store area to find them. Actually, I can't say enough in favor of the General Store, which has tenaciously survived not only in a low-traffic area, but also during a general economic downturn, to continue to provide vital goods/services to our community at a reasonable price.
In every other category of store on Main St, the same thing essentially applies: the trade-off of price vs convenience, but never to an extreme degree. For example, you will find many bargains at the Card Shop in addition to Lotto and the convenience store items on sale, thus it, overall, is a cheap or moderate-priced store. The Main St dry cleaners is extremely reasonably priced. M&D is priced as a corner deli would be priced, but even his prices are not extreme. Also, M&D is tops in sandwiches & prepared food - because of his sales volume in this area. There is nothing as great as roast beef on club roll from M&D. These guys too have served us tirelessly day in and day out, through thick & thin. One time I walked in, ill from a bad cold, and they immediately could tell I was under the weather, and quickly and solicitously made recommendations re tea and rest etc. These guys are special - the store is more than just a business on RI, it's a community hub. The prices at M&D are not as high as those in Manhattan delis, yet the quality is just as good, if not better.
Unfortunately, there is one store on RI that is consistently rather expensive - the Duane Reade. RI can expect prices this high spreading throughout the island once Kramer starts charging unrealistically high rents. He wants to trap us on RI, force us to pay high prices, just as we already pay at the Duane Reade, because the more we pay, the more he profits from his high rents. This was the diabolical bargain the State of NY struck when it agreed to the Master Lease for RI. On RI, we are practically a "captive audience" - because we are an island. Consumers thus lose the competitive advantage of being able to easily/conveniently find alternate/cheaper stores. Previously, the State recognized this economic anomaly and basically bent over backward to try to keep businesses on RI. Kramer, however, wishes to arrange things to his advantage, to maximize his profits on an island whose inhabitants have very few alternatives due to geography. By paying the high prices merchants will have to charge in order to meet Kramer's high rents, we will all be part of Kramer's plan to squeeze every last penny of profit out of RI. And what does Kramer say to the people of moderate income or on fixed income who live on RI and may not be in a position to shop elsewhere for bargains: "Tough! Now you are going to dance to my tune, and I could care less if you starve."
Duane Reade is pretty expensive - not sure about comparison pricing of 6 packs since I do not drink. Put Duane Reade blog into your browser and you will find many blogs complaining about DR prices/service etc. Not sure if their acquisition by Walgreen's will make a difference - maybe their prices will come down a bit as a result.
Jesse - you are so wrong in your assessment. It's Duane Reade that is expensive, and the people of Southtown are not served well by Duane Reade. You can thank Kramer's rents for that.
The businesses on Main St have plenty of customers - the bodega is a hub of commercial activity. I have no problem with those store-fronts - in fact, I treasure authentic, non-cookie-cutter storefronts that reflect the store's history and individuality. I can find scores of drug stores just like the RI Duane Reade anywhere. But Duane Reade does not make communities - they are corporate. It's stores like the bodega, with their unique storefronts, guys that remember/know you, talk, etc. - these stores make a community.
You are wrong there - M&D did renovate a couple of years ago. Obviously, you have not been on RI that long. M&D put in new shelving, new floor, new ceiling ,new interior lighting. It was "totally" renovated.
H&R Master Lease will screw the people of RI - there's no doubt about it - because no matter what business rents from H&R, either the existing businesses or new businesses, they are going to have to charge excessively high prices to make H&R's excessively high rents. Look for $10 for a quart of milk prices. Poor people will be forced to chose between giving their kids milk or paying the rent. This is the future Kramer has in store for us.
Hey, that's what we were told what was going to happen - fill empty storefronts only: Not trash our community. Charging high rents, driving mom-n-pop stores out, removing vital community amenities, or rather "privatizing" the sidewalk in order to force people into cafes, to force them to spend money on high-priced coffee and such - hah - that *wasn't* what we bargained for.
I think the State of NY was sold a bill of goods by this no-goodnik Kramer. Kramer gets the Lease then ups the ante, while John Q. Public is left high and dry with no choice but to pay extreme prices in order to support Kramer's high rent "addiction".
I think Kramer deliberately misrepresented his intentions before RIOC and the State of NY in order to obtain the Lease, so he duped them.
As such, the contract (Master Lease) could be litigated, and once found to have been agreed to by our representatives in State government based on false representations by Kramer and Co., thrown out!
Wrong! The bus makes it possible for those without the mobility/vehicles to take advantage of the lower prices of Costco that those of us on RI who can either drive/walk/bike to Costco already enjoy. Unless you put a Costco on RI, there is no way you are going to get people to spend more money on RI for the categories of goods they purchase at Costco - there is just no price (even price vs convenience) advantage possible. If the bus were taken away, the community would figure out a way to either restore or fund a bus - you can bet on that!
H & R can put a twee cupcake shop on RI, or any other category of specialty store or eatery - it doesn't matter; Roosevelt Islanders, like most New Yorkers (and most Americans for that matter) will still seek out and shop at the low-price, quality store. In our area, that is Costco, and the Queens supermarket destinations.
Frank
I don't think Gristedes is in any violation of their lease agreement per se, but I believe there is language that states they must maintain a certain level of quality comparable to other Gristedes stores. I am going by what David Kramer said at the meeting. He also said they are locked into a long term lease with Gristedes that was executed by RIOC, below the target rents they are trying to establish. He also said they are aware of everyone's discontent and would apply pressure where they could.
Bottom line? If the people want change they need to boycott the store. Just imagine if we organized an effort and no one shopped there? Everyone mistakenly thinks that H-R controls the fate of the retail, but nothing could be farther from the truth. The people of RI control the success by choosing to shop the stores provided or shop elsewhere - correct? I will not shop in Gristedes, M & D, eat at Trellis, or even step foot in the stationary store. All of these places, are in my opinion, very substandard.
To CheshireKitty - no one can force you to buy a $10 quart of milk, it would be ludicrous to do so. You will shop where the price is reasonable, and you should.
All said Frank, I am still a little skeptical about what success can be achieved on Main Street. It could take years to find the right mix of stores, and success could come in spurts. But I think we are on the right track, and the right people are involved.
If there is no violation of Gristede's lease, then H-R won't be able to do anything about it. While the lease might point to comparable stores, this fuzziness can make enforcement difficult.
Not to defend Gristede's, but excluding the hundred yards of disgusting unwashed plaza in front of Gristede's (which Gristede's and H-R have no control over), overall the windows, signage, store, etc. are relatively similar to other stores.
I don't think H-R will be able improve Gristede's along the lines many people suggest.
I hadn't thought about this until writing this post: maybe the disgusting plaza and poor lighting color our opinions more thank we recognize.
Otherwise, I agree that only boycotting will help, but it will take a long while and a sustained effort to get them to listen.
Lastly, other merchants, such as D-R have similar problems: I've made suggestions about price/selection at D-R, but it doesn't help. So I buy these items from CVS or drugstore.com.
Well, this is rather exactly my point - Duane Reade is -very- expensive, so it is rather sad if they beat anyone on price on anything. Although, as an Irishman out of Boston, I do have to say that I do feel sorry that you do not drink, but to each their own :)
BTW, from what I have read, Walgreens rather wants to keep the Duane Reade brand, as it does command a premium in NYC/Manhattan ( I do hear that one of the ones in Brooklyn have an actual tap with local beer, which is pretty cool/igneous marketing)
Thank you for a rather intelligent response (unlike most) - I would also like to point out that beer (and alcohol in general) is extremely overpriced in Manhattan- I have had a few buddies of mine visit from Boston and balk at the Duane Reade's price of 10.50 a six pack of Sam Adams. In Boston and else where it would be 8-9 dollars max. I simply wanted to point out in a good real world example (beer is always good for this, IMHO) that the on sale prices at Gristedes (and the Bodega if they have sales) is actually as much/more than in Duane Reade, which is a shame as Duane Reade is extremely overpriced for everything. I will give the bodega that they have a pretty nice Polish beer for a decent price, though.
Oh well, I guess I should stick to Costcos, where I can get a 24 rack of Sam Adams for 26 dollar(hs) - about the price of two six packs on the island. I will admit - at least Trellis has a fine selection of Sam Adams in bottles (they really need a tap!), and the Riverwalk has a decent draught selection (can't go wrong with a Conney Island IPA) - pretty decent selection and prices on the island at restaurants that save me the trip to either the Brooklyn, Blue Point or Fire Island breweries.
I would also like to add that I feel location is very important - if one was to open a (nice) liquor/wine store where say the Starbucks is, they would bank, manly due to the fact that that location is where the majority of the Island's population go by going home from work. Note that I personally take the Q102 into LIC as I am working over at the city's new DOHMH building there, but I do get off at Gristedes and walk from there to where I live everyday.
Also, my wife and I both walk down Main Street quite often to go to the Farmer's Market (or her to do here nails/etc), and it is not a bad walk - but maybe that is because I am from Boston and I am used to walking every where after finding an impossible free parking space ;)
I am calling Mr. Kramer Monday morning!!!! How self serving and controlling is this move? So is Hudson Related going to make residents cancel their membership to COSTCO next? This is ludicris! What is going on here? If they get rid of the shoppers bus to Costco and Queens that provides many disabled and elderly the chance to go and buy their medicines and other sundries items, veggies, pet food and milk and juice in bulk for them and their families, that is nothing more than forcing their hand on trying to control everyone that lives here. I had thought they wanted to invite other chains or outlets here to build their businesses, and to add variety and help the island grow. but it seems like they are trying to put a ball and chain on the residents that live here. This is sad that a form of transportation will be cut out because those those who do not live here nor understand how it helps many think that it will help their store fronts grow..I think it will do just harm to the store fronts...people will go to Costco out of spite and to Queens to shop just to prove a point, that we can go elsewhere. This is a bad bad move on RIOC and Hudson Related...this should be put to a vote of the people that use the bus, not those that do not. Shame on RIOC and Hudson Related...
Making is harder for Seniors and the disabled to shop in Queens is just absurd and just wrong!!!! Judy is right! You do not need the seniors to make the stores on RI a success.You NEED the families with greater spending power and moreincome to make the retail a success. Cancelling the Shoppers Bus is a big big mistake and it would seem like they want to run a concentration camp if they start dictating what islanders can and cannot spend their money on...I and other will go to COSTCO in spite of more stores here...I will take the Q102 and walk with my cart just to prove I can spend my money where ever I want to!
This is unbelieveable that they want to tell us where to spend our money? These stores are not even open yet and I doubt that they will be able to get the stores they want to move over here. Telling the residents where to shop or not to, or making it harder to live here is a crime in it's self. I hope RIRA is going to step on on this matter! I also hope that eveyrone will call Hudsone Related and Mr. Cramer and RIOC and vent their distaste in this matter. I cannot believe this!
if every resident gave a dollar, 14,500 residents, we could buy our own bus to go to Queens to Costco and the other stores. Oh, wait, will they forbid us to shop anywhere off the island? Will there be a border patrol next to inspect our shopping carts? What is next that we do not know about???? I cannot believe they want to take away the Bus for the elderly and handipcapped...this is insane!
What bus (plus personnel to drive it) can be bought for $14,500? None I know of! Perhaps people can get creative. Many times I've hooked up with a couple of other people and hired car service out to Queens and it worked out great.
I think the shoppers' bus is not being canceled for the time being - enough of a furor was generated over that aspect of the Master Lease to cause Kramer to reconsider the cancellation of the shoppers' bus to Queens.
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