Any Suggestions For Cooling Down The Roosevelt Island Tram Cabins During Brutally Hot Days - RIOC Operations Committee Is Looking For Answers
Image Of Heat Exhaustion From AltaVista For Illustrative Purposes Only
Reported June 22:
Roosevelt Island resident Todd Williams sends in a suggestion for cooling down the Roosevelt Island Tram on brutally hot days:During the Roosevelt Island Operating Corp (RIOC) June 25 Operations Committee meeting (full audio webcast of meeting here), RIOC Director David Kraut asked RIOC VP of Operations Fernando Martinez what can be done to prevent passengers, particularly children and older people, from passing out from heat exhaustion on the Tram.
Because it is dangerously hot in the tram on warmer days (in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if someone passes out on the tram one day), I have suggested to a couple of the operators and to one of the guys in the control station that they place some industrial strength fans at the tram station to blow air through the tram while it is stationary and people are waiting inside. This will help remove some stale air and keep people a little cooler before it takes off....
Mr. Martinez explained that when the Tram was redesigned, it was decided not to include air conditioning in the Cabins because of the added weight which would reduce the number of passengers permitted to ride in the Cabins and the time needed to charge the batteries.
Mr. Kraut said that now that we have a greater experience of the Tram Cabin heat problem, let's look for a solution to the problem. It might be some sort of fan or air conditioning system that RIOC was not aware of but perhaps other people might have the solution.
Mr. Martinez said the matter will be discussed with Tram Operator Poma.
Here's the discussion.
Yesterday, I sent the following question to Mr. Martinez:
...during recent Operations Committee meeting, subject of cooling the Tram Cabins during very hot weather was discussed. Have any plans been made for fans, air conditioning or any other method of cooling down the Tram Cabins during hot weather?Will update when an answer is received.
31 comments :
There has to be something done to promote air movement on the tram if the fans are all we're ever going to get. The current vents and fans don't do nearly enough. There have to be better fan options available.
In a perfect world, while I recognize that the weight of an air conditioning system would reduce the number of passengers, I don't see why the "charging time" would be an issue. It seems like a dockable A/B battery system could be set up, each time the tram lands, Battery Pack A gets left behind and Battery Pack B gets picked up. A charges while B makes a trip, then B is swapped for A when it next lands on the island. For added capacity in the winter, the AC and batteries could be removed when not needed.
To keep from losing all the cool air at the stations, enclose the entrance and exit portions like that do in buildings. It creates a bit of a buffer and keeps it from all going away when the doors open. Having a powerful system cooling the platform would also help replace any lost cooling during exit/boarding operations. Heck, just getting cold air on both sides of the doors when they open in the station might be enough to cut the worst of the heat for the trip and eliminate the need for cooling on the tram.
It's disappointing that the AC requirement was so quickly dropped (and with so little discussion from what I can see) from the contract. Yes, it's an engineering challenge, but it doesn't seem like one that is unsolvable (though, retrofitting such a thing now might be prohibitively expensive).
One almost wonders how much an enclosed, air conditioned, elevatored "sky walk" would have cost instead.
I wonder if RIOC realizes how slow and backward they look from the average residents perspective? What kind of engineer didn't model the temperature in the trams during the summer? Probably the same engineer who decided the tram should land 20 feet in the air so we can all get an extra 30 stairs in everyday.
The fix for this is simple. First just keep the trams running as often as possible which is a double win, wait times go down and air is moving through the cabins most of the time. I have said and continue to say as long as you are paying a tram operator they should be running that thing back and forth as many times as possible everyday. But no someone thinks its a great idea to have some kind of schedule where the tram waits and waits wasting countless days of residents lives because RIOC wants to save on maintenance or just hasn't thought about the most efficient way to do things.
Someone provide some education and procedures to the tram operators. When the door is shut, it is shut and the tram should leave. How many times are they closing and opening the doors to let one more person on the tram? It happens almost every trip I take. If you just miss it, tough, on average you will leave sooner if the tram operator always shuts the doors and leaves right away, rather than delaying all 50 people to let 2 or 3 more on. It is crazy that this person then thanks the tram operator, when they should be thanking the rest of us on the tram for waiting for that person. The tram operator doesn't need to come out to open the door to let strollers and bikes through, we can do that ourselves just like we do at any other subway stop in the city. And using your cell phone while operating the tram (while its operation seems idiot and distraction proof) is probably not the best idea, (maybe you didn't hear about the recent train accidents with operators using cell phones) plus it makes you look like a Gristedes cashier.
We do not need a bunch of giant fans at each station. The cabins already have vents (which should have been fitted with thermostat activated fans in the first place) but they could easily be added after the fact. For a few grand they could retrofit all the cabins with these solar fans next week http://www.amazon.com/Solar-Attic-Fan-Roof-Mount/dp/B00527HFKO
Frankly the heat doesn't bother me, but I am young and healthy and I have definitely seen some other people close to passing out. These people should have been considered in the original design and their needs should be addressed now.
Like everything else RIOC does I am sure they will have 14 meetings, spend way to much, and take way to long (probably til next summer), not listen to what residents say, and in the end come up with a solution that makes few happy. How are those food truck permits, meditation steps, island grill repairs, tram station renovation, and filling of store fronts going? Oh yeah they are not done yet or done poorly. And don't think when you do finish any of these things you are admonished from criticism that you haven't done a very good job with it all.
They could start by opening ALL the windows in each cabin.
The previous tram cabins didn't have any air conditioning at all either. Why did this become an issue all of the sudden? As soon as the tram is moving the wind that comes through the tram is plenty enough to make the very short ride a bit more pleasant.
"Probably the same engineer who decided the tram should land 20 feet in the air so we can all get an extra 30 stairs in everyday."
I am very sure that it wasn't possible to either extend the run as much as needed or make the last part steeper. Those 30 steps are a good workout, though, no?
"First just keep the trams running as often as possible which is a double win, wait times go down and air is moving through the cabins most of the time."
Right. The electricity wasted and the mechanical wear it would cause shouldn't be part of the equation? What kind of world do you imagine where everything is 24/7 nonstop just for your individual convenience? How about the social cost this could cause?
"How many times are they closing and opening the doors to let one more person on the tram?"
This is just part of the culture. Again, are we always in a rush that we cannot be patient another 30 seconds for somebody to board? It's your 30 seconds vs somebody else's 7-15 minutes. Can I assume you don't hold elevator doors for others and use the subway elevators instead of escalators most of the time?
"The tram operator doesn't need to come out to open the door to let strollers and bikes through, we can do that ourselves just like we do at any other subway stop in the city."
Yes, you do but you are not supposed to do that. If you open the gates on your own w/o notifying the booth person and get caught by the police you'll get ticketed for fare evasion. There are no MTA cops at the tram so it's up to them to make sure everybody pays.
"Like everything else RIOC does I am sure they will have 14 meetings, spend way to much, and take way to long (probably til next summer), not listen to what residents say, and in the end come up with a solution that makes few happy."
I think I am correct in assuming you are not a big fan of government.
YAR,
I realize the height of the Manhattan station was probably decided on before I was born, I still think there was a way around it and that it is poor design.
Electricity use and mechnical wear is not wasted, it is used to save peoples time which is very valuable. If on average the tram ran continuously every 5 minutes (as compared to 7 minutes now) it would save everyone who rides it on average 2 minutes. Say an estimated 5000 people ride the tram everyday, that saves over 10,000 minutes or 6+ days of people's time, each day, or more than 1800 days a year (6 years/year) or if you ride the tram everyday that is about 8 hours of saved commuting time per year. That is a lot of time to save at the low cost of using 25% more electricity and wear and tear and worth the cost. Another way to think of it, why not run the tram only when it is at capacity if you are so worried about electricity and wear and tear?
This is not about patience. Everybody waits longer if we take what looks like a "courteous" approach by opening the door for someone running after the tram. It is not courteous, it is in fact the exact opposite, and the same reason you aren't supposed to hold subway doors.
Most people on the island are honest enough to pay the fair, and if they don't you deal with it the same way you do at any other station. If the tram operator sees someone not paying they can report them. Plus there is almost always a PSD officer at the station doing nothing, they can watch and ticket if anyone breaks the rules.
I am not a fan of foreign government. We live here and are governed by those who we don't elect and who don't have our endorsement. The very fact that they haven't changed that system makes them complicit in its corruption. I realize things aren't as bad as they used to be but that doesn't make the way things are right, or the best they could be. A real RIOC representative would go right to the state and tell them this is wrong and needs to change, and make sure it happens.
some small fans could be bolted to the inside corners of each tram and that would circulate air as well as make sure all the windows are open...maybe even put some dark film on the inside of the tram to help reflect the light? There ya go,
One very hot day I was on the tram and noticed that the east-facing windows were closed. When I asked the operator to open them, she said that when the cabin is in motion, the wind slams the windows shut. Another RIOC SNAFU.
it is shocking that when millions were paid for these cabins no one wondered wether they come with air conditioners. When one buys a new car-which is for 4 people- it is expected it has working air conditioners, how about buying a bus? How about a tram, which is high in the air as well, therefore hotter? Who made this failed purchase?
perhaps more people riding it? and the slightly more entitled ones living here these days? In any case, the cabins are new, there SHOULD BE air conditioners present in the cabins. Busses have them, trains have them, small cars have them.
Has anyone on here actually taken the time to think of someone other than themselves? How about be thankful the tram runs 2 at a time during rush hour and it doesn't idle for More than 2 min? Sheesh, you would think we live in a third world by these comments.
Take a minute and let someone else on. Time vs courteous/compassion. Its called PATIENCE. Don't get me wrong I rush myself because after all I am a NYer but I do really appreciate it when I barely make it to swipe my metrocard and they re open the tram to let me on. Our society has become so engrossed with time time time $$$ me me me. Fans would be nice those solar ones even better. Were SO ridiculously spoiled here it's kind of funny. Just do me a favor and take a step back and read your own comments again and laugh at how ridiculous they seem in the grand scheme of things
Next thing you know well be asking for vending machines on the tram to quench our thirst...my fellow roosevelt islander admit it we are spoiled
It's a 4 minute ride. It leaves on time, give or take a few seconds. Try the F-train if the Tram isn't good enough for you.
As a tram rider for 20+ years, it seems to me that because (1) heat waves are getting more frequent (2) the island's population has increased, leading to increased tram ridership, there may be a question as to whether the tram is unsafe to ride/operate (i.e. unsafe for the tram operator) in hot weather. There are temperature guidelines for workplace safety - the same rules should be applied to the tram, which is, after all a workplace in addition to being a means of transportation, even if the ride is only 4" long. Common sense warns against, and most likely the law prohibits, leaving kids/pets/elderly in locked cars in a heatwave - because they can pass out or die in only a few minutes, probably less than 4", in an enclosed car. The windows in the tram may not be adequate to ventilate the tram given the greater loads it is now carrying vs 10 or 15 years ago. It is true that the ride takes only 4" but those 4" can seem like an eternity if you are packed in like a sardine on a hot day. One solution would be to limit the number of passengers being packed in on hot days and run trams more frequently/continuously on those days to mitigate the inconvenience. Installing fans in the tram is another obvious and cheap solution. You could also have air-conditioning units that are removable - only to be installed/activated during the summer. The trade-off would be that fewer people would be allowed on the tram when the a/c is installed to offset the additional weight. Again, run the tram continuously to make up for the resulting reduction of capacity.
I don't think you are realizing the problem with air conditioning. There isn't a large enough power source on the tram to run the AC, the extra weight would come from batteries that would need to be installed (and charged), plus the doors open all the time which makes it difficult to keep the cool in.
It is a 5 minute ride. This is not a bus or a car or anything. This is part of a commute where you get off an airconditioned bus and will most likely go back down into an airconditioned subway train afterward. Why is this all of the sudden becoming an issue? Is it because the slow gentrification of Roosevelt Island is turning the population into people that cannot deal with heat?
Right. And you usually spend a lot more time on a bus or on a train.
"Say an estimated 5000 people ride the tram everyday, that saves over 10,000 minutes or 6+ days of people's time, each day, or more than 1800 days a year (6 years/year) or if you ride the tram everyday that is about 8 hours of saved commuting time per year. That is a lot of time to save at the low cost of using 25% more electricity and wear and tear and worth the cost. Another way to think of it, why not run the tram only when it is at capacity if you are so worried about electricity and wear and tear?"
I kind of knew you would go into opportunity cost territory. You know what? In economic terms you are right. Unfortunately, it really doesn't apply to real life. No time is really wasted just because the operator opens the door a couple of times. It's an attitude thing. Nobody really complains that it takes an additional minute for the tram to depart. Maybe not "nobody" but most. And you know what? Sometimes it is you who arrives a split second late and is glad that the door opens for you once more so you don't have to hang out for another 15 minutes.
Also, about the wear and tear. We don't have to choose from two extremes. "Running the tram 24/7 non-stop" or "waiting for the cabin to be filled up". There needs to be, of course, a middle ground where predictability and costs are met at to a certain extend.
You confuse patience with common sense and good putting thought into operations.
Your logic defies having a useful discussion with you. "No time is really wasted..."? I just spelled it out how much time is actually wasted. If we aren't to use opportunity cost what are we to use, gut feelings? Dataless anecdotes? Minutes add up and where they are easy to save they should be saved. All I am saying is that the current schedule is arbitrary and it's an easy place for RIOC to save us all a little time.
I don't understand this - are you telling me one of the cables on the top of the Tram cars is not an electrical umbilical cord? Seems like utterly poor engineering...
I realize the inherent difficulties of cooling the tram and thats why I don't bitch about it and just suck it up. However as a business owner who is trying to draw new business from off the island, a steamy ride over is a bad first impression of our Island.
I don't have the blueprints, but from observation it looks like there is only a low voltage line, or low power batteries that power everything on the tram car itself, otherwise yes it would simply be a matter of adding a rooftop AC unit, which isn't that heavy. The weight they are talking about mostly comes from providing a power source. Power cables are heavy, batteries are heavy, the actual AC unit is probably the least weight of all of these.
Like I suggested though solar fans are readily available, small, light, don't require power lines, cheap, easy to install and probably would keep the tram a lot cooler.
Right. Your suggestion was letting the tram run continuously which I disagreed with. Then you had issue with the operator opening the doors for late-comers with which I disagree as well.
The point is, if you reach the platform and the tram just closed the door but the operator opened the door for you, would you refuse to board the tram? Would you enter the cabin and apologize to everybody standing around? WHAT would you do since you are concerned with the 30 seconds that 50 other people are wasting for your own convenience.
It's the gentrifiers that are complaining...
Most bad decisions in this world come from justifying decisions based the "human elements" which cannot be accounted for. What makes us really human is being able to differentiate between providing the apparent courtesy of holding a train, tram, or bus, from the problems and inconvenience it actually creates.
I have emailed RIOC about this and it would be a damn shame if they didn't read a blog like this to get input on how people feel about what they are doing. There is no need for us to talk to every tram operator and tell them how we think they should do their job, that should come from their supervisor.
Not necessarily true. With an unlimited Metro card, you can hop on & off buses and trains even for short hops for no additional cost. In fact, I often do just that on hot days - to get a break from the heat, even if only for a brief 1 or 2 block bus ride which of course I would have ordinarily walked if the weather were more bearable. This is the equivalent of ducking into a store for a few minutes for no reason (or at least, with no real intention of shopping) simply to get out of the heat. It may not possible to a/c the tram, but adequate fans (if possible, solar-powered) should be installed; in case of a blackout, the fans at least could keep going. Also, RIOC should not run packed trams in hot weather; to make up for the resulting reduced capacity, RIOC should run the trams continuously.
the only way to cool down the tram is to install showers---of course we need a dressing room before we enter the tram---you need to bring your own towel and bathing suit---I`m going to write Cuomo a letter I think he will go for it
maybe you should try swimming across
if your not satisfied try the f train-----
in a modern age the tram should have cool air ---just because you may handle the heat there are others who can`t
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