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Wednesday, March 12, 2014

Yesterday's Spring Temperature and Sunshine Brings Return To Outdoor Seating At Roosevelt Island Restaurants

The spring like weather yesterday brought the outdoor seating back to Roosevelt Island restaurants at Nonno's,


and the Riverwalk Bar & Grill.

Not much of a chance to enjoy the outdoor seating with today's dreary weather or freezing temperatures expected to return tomorrow. However, spring will soon be here with sunshine, warmer weather and the opportunity to eat and drink outdoors.

Looking forward to that.


OldRossie said...

And a white boy will never climb the ranks of the NAACP. Do you want that banned from the island as well?

Frank Farance said...

Having grown up within ideals of the civil rights movement (and later on the enthusiasm of the Equal Rights Amendment), it seems to me that MLK would have wanted blacks to continue to pursue goals of equality, pursue them non-violently, and pursue them within the system. So when service was requested by blacks and refused at a Woolworth's lunch counter, then finding (say) a "Blackworth's" that seats blacks just furthers the faulty idea of Separate But Equal.

For me, it was very moving to hear gay boy scouts telling there heartfelt stories of rejection by BSA. I feel this testimony had a powerful effect on BSA's shifting positions.

Now wouldn't it be great if boy scouts themselves reached for the same ideals of equality, this time on behalf of scoutmasters?

Rewarding experiences come not just from successful outcomes, but also come from principled struggles (whether the end goals were achieved or not).

YetAnotherRIer said...

Since there are alternatives to the BSA your comment does not make much sense. There is no need to fight from within if you have the opportunity to persuade others to not even consider the BSA or convince others to jump ship.

YetAnotherRIer said...

Hmmm... if you think it is okay that a boy scout leader must not be gay then you can probably compare the BSA with the NAACP.

Frank Farance said...

YetAnotherRIer, I see your point, which is not wrong, but is not my preference in this particular case. In some cases it might be appropriate to just go elsewhere to get something equivalent or better, e.g., your son is just interested in friendship, camping, and outdoor fun. In other cases, it might be worth one's while to challenge the institution, based upon principled disagreement, and and challenge the prevailing practice/wisdom ... along with friendship, camping, and outdoor fun.

YetAnotherRIer said...

Again, there are options and the best way to fight the BSA is to consider alternative organizations to form a troop on Roosevelt Island. Personally, I do not understand what makes you want to get specifically the BSA back. You mentioned "branding", i.e. having Eagle Scout on your child's resume will have a positive impact on his future life. I guess your priorities are different than mine. I'd rather show my children that discrimination is wrong and that there are other ways to prove yourself that do not involve "brand names."

Frank Farance said...

YetAnotherRIer: I still can show my children discrimination is wrong, but (sadly) it is almost everywhere. Very few things are perfect in life, coping with imperfection is important, just as is principled opposition. Or said differently, should I be recommending against taking a job at the post office because I'm unhappy with actions of some other agency in the Federal government? Unless one lives alone, there will be some degree of imperfection in every human transaction.

And what if my son and his buddies decided they wanted to take a principled stand (just as other scouts have) and spent time educating himself and learning to make principled arguments? Certainly a rewarding experience, right?

I supported the Equal Rights Amendment, yet ultimately it failed and there are still inequalities for women. I'm happy I informed myself, and I stood up then, and I still stand up now for equality. Looking back, I'm glad I was able to embrace/engage the discussion/argument, rather than just only interacting inside the Echo Chamber with people who only thought like me.

OldRossie said...

Do you have kids?

CheshireKitty said...

FYI, read here the story of the first openly gay Eagle Scout.

Unfortunately, as the BSA still bans gay adults, in Aug., when this Eagle Scout turns 18, he will be ejected from the BSA under the current policy.,0,2017487.story

YetAnotherRIer said...

Yes, I do. I was a scout as a child, too (not in this country, though).

YetAnotherRIer said...

Yes, of course you should not take a government job (or any job, if that matters) when the policies of the employer are against your beliefs of "right" and "wrong." UNLESS, of course, you have *no* alternatives (something that does not apply to the BSA.)

I am not sure if I understand you correctly. Are you saying that because the world is not perfect you make the argument that it is okay to support a gay-hating organization? Or are you actually saying that in order to fight something you join them and engage in discussions from within and that will eventually turn them around? I would love to drink whatever you are drinking.

OldRossie said...

Great! and earlier you suggested Trail Life USA. So if your son (for argument sake, you have a boy) says he wants to be a boy scout - he knows about it from school, he wants to do it with his friends - you would say, "no, its a discriminatory institution and you are not allowed to participate so that we can show support for the stance against discrimination. Instead, you can be a part of Trail Life USA, which maintains Christian values (which are FAR less gay-hating)"? Or would you make it more friendly, like, "sweetheart, I don't think the scouts are right for you, but there's a Trail Life meeting in Rochester next week!"

I know I sound like an idiot, but I'm just trying to prepare myself for when my son asks for something your principles have already removed from the city.

Side note: when should we start calling for a ban on cable television on the island? Weight discrimination on TV is an outrage!

YetAnotherRIer said...

What's with the name calling?

Okay, baby steps so you understand what I am saying:

1) Trail USA would not be my choice of scouting org because I dislike faith-based organizations. If you bothered to read my complete comment you would have seen a couple links at the end that listed a myriad of other faith and non-faith based organizations. If any of my boys would show interest in scouting I'd suggest some of those.

2) Now to the point about friends of my sons wanting him to join the boy scouts. Luckily, scouting usually does not start in the tween or teen years but rather more early elementary school age. I have a last say in what activities my boys at that age want to do and very few kids will resist vehemently because friends x, y, or z are at the BSA and I won't let them. There are better things to do with your life than blindly follow your friends and ignore the bigger picture.

3) I do not understand how you guys can excuse the behavior of the BSA towards gay boys and men. Creation of a new local BSA troop shows your support for them.

OldRossie said...

Sorry, I was calling myself an idiot, not you... I guess what I'm (poorly) trying to say is that this constant attempt at liberal reformation, and political correctness, and equality for all... it's all great, and I agree with it all, but doesn't it seem to be going too far? We can't have Boy Scouts now? really?

What bothers me is less about BSA and more this constrictive ideology you're pushing.

My kid can chose whatever makes him happy: gay, straight, boy scouts, girl scouts, religion, atheism, whatever... so long as it's legal, doesn't hurt anyone, he's safe, healthy, and happy, what's the harm? that's life. I'm just here keep him on the straight and narrow, and teach him a few things along the way. One of which is that it's wrong to discriminate - but BSA isn't preaching that gay is bad. I was a scout too, I had NO IDEA that was a rule until people (like you, no offense) attacked them for it. It is a stupid antiquated rule, but at that age I wouldn't have been better off without it...

But that's not good enough. You're saying that Frank should find another organization, and we should all stand against BSA. Now there's another experience my kid wont have because you don't like their rules. They're kids for God's sake.

YetAnotherRIer said...

So, am I right to assume that gay rights are not one of the top items on your list of social issues that needs to be fixed soon? I don't feel it is a restriction to suggest not to support an organization that discriminates. Yes, it is legal etc. etc. but it shouldn't.

For me this is just as important as women's suffrage and ending segregation was in the past. This has nothing to do with political correctness. This is a real issue and, yes, equality for all is long overdue in this case and will never be achieved if people supports orgs like the BSA.

OldRossie said...

You're correct in that assumption, and I will concede that if it mattered to me, if I (or a member of my family or friends) were affected by it, I'd be singing a different tune. Not the top of my list, but agreed it should be address. If we were talking about coke, I'd switch to pepsi. But taking away opportunities for my kids does affect me - hence my difference of opinion with you.
I understand your point, but we're not going to agree. maybe that idea you ridiculed about offering boy scouts, while lobbying them to change their rules is the middle ground (they already have - they just need to go a tiny bit further). Otherwise, we may as well live in a bubble.
speaking of which, you never responded to my weight discrimination on TV thing...