Allegations Of Brutality Leveled At Roosevelt Island Public Safety Department, Twenty Year Old Beaten, Maced, Hospitalized For 7 Days, Mother Not Able To See Him - RIOC Meeting Today To Discuss These Allegations
Reported last January 11 that the Roosevelt Island Residents Association (RIRA) renewed their October 2012 request for the Roosevelt Island Operating Corp (RIOC) to investigate the actions of its Public Safety Department in the handling of a resident's arrest (Video here).
Today's RIOC Operations Committee Agenda includes the following item:
Chair's Motion for Executive Session to Discuss:Executive Session means that the discussion will not be open to the public.
... b. Recent Complaint Against the RIOC Public Safety Department
It was not the investigation request from RIRA which brought about today's RIOC Operations Committee discussion of complaints against the Roosevelt Island Public Safety Department. It was allegations of Public Safety Department brutality brought to the attention of resident Frank Farance and Mr. Farance sending the following January 24 inquiry to the RIOC Board and Executive Staff. (I have asked RIOC for comment on two separate occasions. They have not replied).
Here is Mr. Farance's January 24 inquiry to RIOC.
To: RIOC BoardUpon learning of these allegations, RIOC Director Michael Shinozaki called for RIOC to investigate this incident.
A mother contacted me with an incredible story about two weeks ago (2013-01-13, presumably the trespassing entry on the PSD log). According to the mother ...
- The son (a 510 Eastwood resident) was waiting with a friend in the front 510 Eastwood stairwell for another friend to come down (who lived in the back of 510 Eastwood). No drinking/smoking involved.
- Public Safety officers came and the boys ran.
- The son, decided to give himself up since he didn't do anything wrong, was apprehended by PS officers.
- The PS officer asked the boy to get down on one knee, but had difficulty doing with the officer forcing him down, so he asked to do it himself.
- The PS officer maced the boy, smashed his face to the ground (face cut up, broken tooth) and stepped on the boy's back.
- The boy said he couldn't breath.
- When they arrived at PS, the boy complained he couldn't breath. An ambulance was called.
- The boy was taken to Mt. Sinai in Queens. They took X-rays of his lungs, they were filled with fluid. The doctor said: might be pneumonia.
- Mt. Sinai in Queens was out of space, so he was transferred to Mt. Sinai Madison Avenue.
- Again, X-rays of boy's lungs showed they were filled with fluid.
- They pumped 2.5-3 liters of blood from his lungs. A CT scan show fractured ribs and a punctured lung.
- One doesn't contract pneumonia in an hour, these were all a result of his abuse with PS officers.
- It wasn't until a day later that his parents were notified he was in the hospital.
- The mother arrived, but was prohibited from seeing her son. PS officers told the mother: if she attempts to see the son, she will be arrested and summonsed.
- The boy was handcuffed to the bed for five days (Sunday-Thursday), still in the same bloody clothes as he arrived.
- The boy was guarded by round-the-clock PS officers (not NYPD)
- The mother begged to see the son because he was losing fluids and might need a transfusion, but PS would not permit it.
- On Wednesday, the mother was able to see the son briefly.
- The mother asked: what is my son charged with? Answer: loitering/trespassing. She could not understand why he was still handcuffed to the bed if his only charge would be a summons.
- On Thursday, the mother spoke with PSD Chief Guerra, who told her: the District Attorney declined to prosecute.
- Guerra told the mother: Maybe your son learned a lesson(!).
- When the mother went back to PS, Lieutenant Yee told her: I'm sorry your son was so ill, we saved his life by taking him to the hospital. The mother said he was healthy prior, and believes he did not develop pneumonia during his arrest.
- The boy was in the hospital for seven days, he is now in rehab.
A more plausible explanation is: PS was so abusive that they almost killed him, and they stayed with him to monitor to medical progress and prevent information flow to the parents (under the false guise of "in custody") so that they, consistent with Guerra's approach, claim the person was faking their injuries. But it all went horribly wrong.
Can someone explain how PS can just take you away for five days, handcuffed to a bed with only PS officers guarding you 24/7, yet no NYPD involvement?
How does a loitering charge escalate into near-death and such abusive treatment by PS officers?
What is Public Safety's story on this?
Again, these are allegations at this time subject to further investigation.
On January 25, I sent the following inquiry to RIOC Acting President Don Lewis, Public Safety Department Director Keith Guerra and the RIOC Directors:
I am following up on email I sent yesterday seeking comment from RIOC regarding the Public Safety incident as described by Frank Farance that is included below.No reply to date.
Does RIOC dispute in any way the account of this incident.
If so, what is incorrect?
I plan on publishing a story about this incident and will include any statement that RIOC wishes to make on the incident?
Please let me know if you do or don't wish to comment.
A press conference on this incident is scheduled for this afternoon at the Law Offices Of Michael S. Lamonsoff. According to a Press Release from the Lamonsoff Law firm:
INNOCENT VICTIM IS SEVERELY BEATEN AND BRUTALIZED BY THE NOTORIOUS ROOSEVELT ISLAND PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICERS: RESIDENTS DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITYThe NY Daily News reported late last night:
In a bizarre twist of fate, those that are charged with the protection of Roosevelt Islanders have become the biggest threat to the security of the Island’s residents. The Roosevelt Island Public Safety Department, through their peace officers, are solely responsible for policing the Island’s residents. While they are not members of the New York City Police Department, they are given similar powers in that they can effectuate arrests, use force, detain people, and issue summonses and tickets. Any persons arrested by them are turned over to the local NYPD precinct for processing.
The Island’s peace officers are not held to the same level of accountability for their excesses and abuses as the NYPD. They don’t have oversight groups like the IAB or the CCRB and they are answerable only to the Roosevelt Island Operating Committee Board of Directors who are political appointees. Their unchecked tactics include false arrests, beatings, Miranda rights violations, the imposition of curfews pell-mell, arresting residents who are not carrying picture identification, publicly defaming residents and using baseless, trumped up charges. The victims of these tactics are primarily the Island’s youth, whose futures are put at risk by these tactics. Parents of the Island’s youth fear not only for their children’s futures but also for their physical safety.
On January 13, 2013, 20-year-old Anthony Jones was violently assaulted by the Island’s peace officers. The assault began at 8:00 pm, at an apartment complex at which Mr. Jones and his friends were lawfully waiting for a resident to come out. Suddenly and without any provocation, the officers rushed towards them. They ordered Mr. Jones to the ground, and he complied. Thereafter, without resisting in any manner, he was maced, severely kicked, beaten and then handcuffed.
After having handcuffed Mr. Jones, the officers continued to brutally beat, kick and mace him. Finally, he was taken to a holding cell of the Roosevelt Island Public Safety Department. While being held, Mr. Jones made desperate complaints that he could not breathe. He was taken to the hospital and handcuffed to his bed. At the hospital, doctors determined that Anthony was hemorrhaging blood into his lungs from the brutal beating at the hands of the officers. As a result of the beating, Mr. Jones sustained severe injuries to his lungs, several fractured ribs and teeth, requiring him to be admitted into the hospital for 7 days. Mr. Jones was never charged with a crime nor was he processed by the NYPD.
The Roosevelt Island Public Safety Department and their actions demonstrate a lack of training, regulation and accountability. Their actions are indicative of tactics designed to terrorize a peaceful and law-abiding community into fear and submission.
... Now Jones is planning on suing the Roosevelt Island Public Safety Department Wednesday, charging the NYPD-deputized peace officers are poorly trained thugs who’ve been terrorizing “the peaceful and law-abiding community” they’re supposed to protect.and shows where Mr. Jones alleges he was beaten by Public Safety Officers behind 20 River Road
Jones’ mother, Monica Vega, said the incident happened around 8 p.m. on Jan. 13, when her son and some pals were waiting in front of an apartment building for a friend....
....The incident was caught on numerous cell phone cameras, Vega said....
Image From Jeff Bachner/for New York Daily News
The issue of how to monitor and investigate complaints against the Roosevelt Island Public Safety Department has been longstanding and unresolved. As reported in this 2010 post:
... Mr. Kellner's bill, (A 10618), will create a New York State Civilian Review Board. According to Mr. Kellner:Mr. Kellner's legislation has not been enacted into law.
When a civilian makes an allegation of misconduct against an officer of the New York City Police Department, both the officer and the civilian know that the complaint will be investigated by a fair and impartial body — the New York City Civilian Complaint Review Board (NYC CCRB). But when there is a dispute over the conduct of an officer employed by one of the many police forces operated by the State of New York, there is no such recourse.
Our state government has created dozens of different police forces, of all shapes and sizes. They do important work, but when there’s a complaint, officers and civilians alike are thrown to the mercy of dozens of different internal review processes—which are often murky and inconsistent. I have introduced legislation to replace this Kafkaesque system with a single, fair and independent civilian review body — the New York State Civilian Complaint Review Board....
Nothing in the Roosevelt Island Public Safety Report for January 13 listed below
1/13/13 7:00 am to 1/14/13 7:00 am
1/13/13 - 1300 - 2 River Rd. - Noise Complaint - Unfounded - PSD/NYPD on scene.
1/13/13 - 1301 - 566 Main St. - Alarm - Doors and windows secured. PSD/ NYPD on scene.
1/13/13 - 1328 - 546 Main St. - Found Property - Returned to owner.
1/13/13 - 1409 - 625 Main St. - Possible Harassment - PSD on scene/refused NYPD.
1/13/13 - 1900 - 645 Main St. - Illegally Parked Vehicle - Vehicle was towed.
1/13/13 - 1928 - 543 Main St. - Past Aided - Refused medical attention.
1/13/13 - 1930 - 536 Main St. - Trespassing/Resisting Arrest - Two male subjects arrested.
1/13/13 - 2205 - 510 Main St. - Criminal Mischief - UA super notified.
1/13/13 - 2205 - 540 Main St. - littering - UA personnel corrected condition.
indicates the seriousness of this incident.
Will have more from this afternoon's press conference and if RIOC responds to charges.
UPDATE 4:11 PM - Here's what happened during the Press Conference.
188 comments :
For the record, Public Safety doesn't "turn over" anyone to NYPD when they "process" arrests.
Public Safety goes to the 114th precinct and fingerprints, photographs, and types of the paperwork themselves. Then, Public Safety transports the subjects to Manhattan's central brooking until their arraignment.
If a subject needs medical attention, Public Safety brings the subject to the hospital and watches the prisoner. How come NYPD doesn't watch him? Because NYPD has nothing to do with it. Public Safety is a POLICE force.
Do you know the only thing that Public Safety can't do that NYPD can do? Hint: It has nothing to do with guns. PSD is authorized to use deadly force. The answer is arrest someone simply because they have a warrant. If PSD legally stops someone for a violation, then they will be arrested for the warrant as well, but that's the ONLY difference between Public Safety and NYPD.
As for this case, there's zero facts so I'll reserve judgement. Maybe Roosevelt Islander can produce a youtube video of the incident.
P.S. The residents of the island don't realize that they make themselves look a little crazy sometimes with what they say.
These are serious allegations and need to be taken seriously, I 100% agree with that, but to go on and on about PSD blocking the flow of information makes you sound like a bit of a loony. You'll get further in life if you don't make crazy accusations and stick to the ones that are more believable.
The lawyer's press conference is going to be hilarious. When a lawyer needs to use press conferences, press releases, and talks about the case 100 times before there's a case... You know he's just grandstanding.
We really need to see a video.
Folks, Guerra is going all out to counter this. Section1Guy is from Greebrugh (Guerra's former location), and Ant Lefty is from Public Safety. Why not have Public Safety tell us the facts, as they know it? NYPD would present its own story, right? So why not PSD?
+1 Frank. The facts may not be correct, but RIOC and PSD hasn't said anything after an entire week, which should be concerning to residents. Regardless of what actually happened the slow and vague information released by RIOC and PSD is the real issue.
Former PSD. Left in January 2011.
Frank,
What does Chief Guerra have to do with my comments? I worked at Public Safety for 2+ years and left for another job like most of Chief Guerra's first officer class. We now have multiple police officers in NYPD, Baltimore Police, FDNY, NYC corrections, and other organizations... All from officers hired in Chief Guerra's first year.
As a PSD detective, I made plenty of arrests with and without incident. It depends on which island resident you are dealing with at the time.
If you read about any brutality charge, you ONLY hear from the plaintiffs. That's how the system works.
Look up Danroy Henry or any other police brutality case. Facts come out in court. They aren't just grandstanded in the press.
This is a blog... How come can't we get any details from these numerous videos?
I know this, 9 out of 10 cases of impropriety were bogus when I was at PSD. Any time it was legit, that officer was disciplined.
Chief Guerra has worked hard to try and change the perception of PUblic Safety. He gets resistance from every angle though.
Frank, you try to discredit me (for what reason I don't know considering I haven't commented on this case), yet you just spout second hand information as fact all the time and your opinion should hold no water considering you have had an axe to grind since I first heard your name.
A feast for our resident conspiracy theorist.
When I've used press conferences before a case, it's to announce that the case was just filed and to provide the media with a copy of the complaint. It's also a good time to do things like hand out copies of the video to the media.
It's difficult to know whom to believe in all this. Parts of all the stories don't make sense. But if even ONE of the allegations is true, then the incident reflects poorly on the PSD. Did they confront and chase a group of teenagers without cause? Did they brutalize a handcuffed suspect? Did they deny someone in their custody access to their family? Did they also deny him access to an attorney?
Is any one of these allegations acceptable behavior, if it were true? Of course not.
I've tried to give the PSD the benefit of the doubt about past incidents such as this. I've tried to believe they are just doing their jobs in difficult circumstances and amid competing demands. But as the number of such incidents mount, it becomes difficult not to believe that the problem is larger than that.
No one wants to live in a police state.
Horror and revulsion. Whoever is in charge of PSD - Gov. Cuomo, Mayor Bloomberg - must accept responsibility and officially apologize for this horrific beating and the way it was subsequently handled. If there is official inaction to make amends, then the civil rights leadership should get involved, meaning Rev. Al Sharpton, and the other African-American and Latino leaders of NYC. As for the officers who administered the beatings: Message to Manhattan DA: Indict them now please. Message to Gov. Cuomo: Replace Chief Guerra immediately and disband the RI PSD, which is evidently completely corrupt and lawless. Anything is preferable at this point to PSD: The State Police or the NYPD. Once the beating videos are released, they will probably go viral. You then unfortunately have the distinct possibility that anger will explode - just like with the footage of the Rodney King beating. Message to New Yorkers: Don't riot. It will destroy the civil fabric of the city and lead to deaths when the police start shooting people in the streets, and possibly cause a political backlash at the polls in November. This is what happened after Crown Heights, and we are still under the Republicans to this day in NYC. Don't riot - instead demonstrate peacefully - if demonstrations are needed until the officers are indicted. We had peaceful demonstrations with several police brutality cases in NYC over the past 10 or 15 years - not riots. The demonstrators got arrested over and over again - but there were no riots. You may disagree with the outcomes of the cases, but the officers involved were indicted and tried. This is the best way to proceed: Trials and hopefully jail-time for the officers who beat Mr. Jones, dismissal or at least transfer for Cmdr. Guerra, and the replacement of the PSD with either the State Police or the NYPD. The family definitely should pursue their lawsuit and the City/State should forthwith apologize to the family and the victim.
Great job learning the facts of the case. Right away call for the heads of everyone.You know absolutely zero facts. Great job.
Anyone notice the tactic of this lawyer?
He calls Public safety "security" about 100 times. That's intended by this guy. He immediately stops talking about his own case and starts bringing up other instances which have been found to be bogus.
C'mon folks, does this REALLY sound like a plausible story? Sounds crazy! Wondering if Frank actually told the story verbatim or did he embellish and have we once again been FARANCE'D!!. Anyway, you all shouldn't be so gullible. RIOC can't comment, either can PS because some ambulance chaser has now got a hold of the case. Let the games begin!
A more plausible version could be the kid is a troublemaker, tried to be a smart ass, and got roughed up because he deserved it (why did they run for no reason?). Many times I've observed the youth on this island taunting PS and being more than just disrespectful.
455Resident: You can watch the video and hear the mother tell the story, there was no embellishing, I just wrote down what she said last week, and checked it twice with her.
As for litigation, there is plenty of litigation with NYPD, but that does not stop NYPD from providing their side of the story, and they do so promptly.
According to the mother, the kid had no prior arrests, no prior involvement with Public Safety. There was no mention of resisting arrest.
Even if some of the kids that are disrespectful, that doesn't mean you treat all the kids as if they were disrespectful. And for the kids who are disrespectful, that doesn't rationalize beating the crap out of them.
Contrary to you, no one deserves to get "roughed up".
Section1Guy: Director Guerra is about claiming subjects fake their injuries. Guerra has lied multiple times about these events, especially when there is video to back up my points -- everything is first-hand.
Guerra's approach is to size you up, figure out how much he thinks you know, and then talk to you based upon that ... he has no compunction about lying, and will do it straight to your face. But I am not the exception, every person in the RIRA leadership over the years has reported the same problem with Guerra's lying.
So lying doesn't build trust. Claiming subjects are faking their injuries is repugnant, and Public Safety officers laughing at one's injuries is inhuman. Guerra gets an F- on that kind of law enforcement leadership, which creates a poor public perception.
Ditto for fabricating testimony for criminal complaints (Sgt. Ingrid Veras).
Now you bring up an interesting point on Danroy Henry. I've looked at a couple articles and much of it surrounds what happened within the span of minutes, at most an hour. I recognize that sometimes people can be thrown off suddenly and find themselves in a bad decision or outcome. But this Public Safety event happened over five days, three shifts a day. Across those dozen-plus shifts with management aware that a Public Safety officer is off Island providing round-the-clock watch, no one said "if he's not charged with anything, then why do we have him in custody for 5 days?"; or no-one said "hey, did we read him his Miranda Rights? [no]"; or no-one said "now how long can we keep him in custody without access to an attorney?". Or even at the moment of the arrest, when it was clear there was no resisting arrest, one of the other officers didn't have the presence of mind to say "hey, you're going too far with this guy". This is no Danroy Henry case.
Did the victim get charged with anything? Answer: No. Did the victim get beaten to within an inch of his life? Answer: Yes. I am calling for the cops that did this to him to answer in a court of law - the process should start with a Grand Jury handing up the indictment. These cops should not get away with near-murder.
The cops are not above the law. Both the PSD and the cops who did this personally, are liable.
Whoever is in charge - the Governor, or the Mayor - has to take responsibility and apologize to the victim and his family. This is an outrageous violation of the young man's civil rights, as well as a violent assault by rogue cops, in the context of a thoroughly corrupt PSD on an innocent victim.
And by the way - it's not up to the cops to administer punishment to a detainee. That's not the way the law works in our country. We don't do cruel & unusual punishment such as vicious beatings in the US - didn't we fight a war to get rid of the Brits to win that right?
And this kid was doing nothing wrong, had no contraband on him, and fully cooperated with the directions of the police. He was beaten and abused to within an inch of his life merely for standing on the sidewalk outside a building waiting for a friend.
PSD knew they had gone way too far and so they prevented the victim's mom from seeing her son - so that the most damning photos, of the kid covered with blood, handcuffed to his hospital bed (for absolutely no reason), uncared for by the hospital staff (perhaps PSD was hoping the kid would die for whatever twisted reason of theirs) would never make it into the papers. One photo of a victim of a police beating covered in blood in a hospital bed speaks louder than any amount of testimony in a court room. This is what Guerra hoped to avoid by violating the victim's civil rights by cuffing him to his bed for no reason - probably unlawful imprisonment - and preventing his relatives from seeing him, as well as of course, no lawyer could see him.
When the story of this crime by the cops (which is what it is) gets out, and especially when the video gets on YouTube, don't be surprised by the public's outraged reaction.
And BTW - I'm usually pro-police, pro-security. That goes out the window in the case of police abuse, cruelty, brutality and this case, near-murder. No-one is above the law. The cops who did this must answer before the law. I am calling for a Grand Jury investigation and indictment of the cops who did this, as well as the replacement of the PSD by either the NYPD or the State Police. The PSD is thoroughly corrupt - Guerra prevented the kid's mom from seeing her son, he prevented the kid from getting access to a lawyer, he unlawfully imprisoned the kid in the hospital bed. These are all crimes and Guerra himself should be answerable. For all we know, since Guerra must have directed hospital staff from caring for the victim, Guerra might have been hoping or wishing for the victim to die. Thus, we are now looking at a possible attempted murder rap for Guerra as well as the cops, if he was pulling all the strings post-beating, which is likely. The hospital is compromised if they failed to care for the victim - they may have been intimidated by Guerra into withholding care. That's another transgression by Guerra. There is no way Guerra should be allowed by Gov. Cuomo to remain in his present position given the above.
The PSD is thoroughly corrupt and compromised by Guerra. Anybody who finds out about this vicious beating and the aftermath - the coverup and misuse of power by Guerra, the unlawful imprisonment of the young man - should contact Gov. Cuomo to protest the use of tax dollars going to support the corrupt, murderous RI PSD.
what can people who live on Roosevelt Island do to register their disapproval of what took place? this is important and I think the community should be able to discuss the issue.
RIOC is directly answerable to Gov. Cuomo.
We should call, email or write to the Governor expressing disapproval of the beating of Mr. Jones by the PSD.
The contact info for the Governor is at http://www.governor.ny.gov/contact/GovernorContactForm.php
thanks, I will write to him, this is outrageous. I care about this community and this occurrence is an outrage!
Yeah, I just wrote to him. People can also contact all the RI elected officials to protest. This is a start at least.
Perhaps all RI residents should find out what portion of monthly rent/co-op or condo maintenance goes to PSD and begin en mass withholding that amount each month!
You get your attorney at COURT. Not in a hospital. What's with this myth of Miranda rights being read all over this blog. Law enforcement does not Ned to read you your rights for every arrest case. As a matter of fact the only ones who really read Miranda to subjects are detectives who are grilling a suspect.
Know the rules before you look like fools.
Hear the mother? what does the mom have to do with the arrest? All I saw was a cracking voice and not a single tear. On the video all I saw was a scratch on the cheek which is plausible if you are taken to the ground. The mom was not there during the arrest and there is nothing but heresay at this point. I'm sure even you can put your ax down for now.
Let's get this straight, PSD needs an overhaul from the top down. Starting with the Director, Deputy Director the Captain and the Lieutenants. If you know who I am, you know I know what I am talking about...... Are you losing your mind reading this post Keith???? 1st Amendment Right, you can't touch me......
Ant, it is not the officers that are the problem. It is the upper management of the department Director through Lieutenants. You utilized PSD as a stepping stone and gained tremendous knowledge and experience. However, we have had many conversations "off the record" and that, my friend, is what needs to be corrected. The residents are right this time and corrective action is needed immediately.
1. You are an insulting piece of garbage. Where do you get the balls to state "battle of the liberal residents vs the law enforcement arm..." and whether we are "liberals" or "conservatives" has nothing to do whatsoever with being law abiding! I am glad you are no longer part of our Public Safety Department!
2. Quit saying things about the "ignorance" of residents.
3. PSD officers are our employees. Portions of our monthly rents or maintenance are pooled to pay their salaries. In addition, we pay taxes to the city and state which also go towards their salaries.
4. If the officers were part of NYPD an incident such as this, while under investigation, would put them at the very least on administrative leave.
No, let's get this straight... You are the one who was let go from RIOC with good reason. Why......... Because you tried to bully female co-workers, put someone else in a head lock. What's with all that brutality mikey. Didnt you want to be the psd director too? more sour grapes.......
Section1Guy, you and the other officers got to your new positions by your own merits. Do not give Guerra an ounce of credit. He runs that ship like he owns the island and owns the Public Benefit Corporation that gives him a paycheck. He is a Director of the Roosevelt Island Operating Corporation. He is NOT a Chief. A Chief, by definition is an active duty officer. He is retired, he is a civilian, he carries a firearm in NYC illegally as he is NOT required by his employer to do so. He operated at my level and thought he was the boss. It is time for his resignation, the Deputy Director, the Captain and the Lieutenants. Only then will the problem begin to get corrected.
Mr. Prozakis, you sound foolish because you can't see it from the perspective of a defendant. If Public Safety, *after* taking you into custody, is going to use your statements and actions (made *after* taking you into custody) as part of a criminal complaint (with no formalized interview/questioning), then you should be read your rights right away so you'll know that your statements will be used against you. (Not to mention, Public Safety has fabricated evidence and trumped up charges.) Saying mistakes will get resolved in court, is just a financial penalty of (possibly) thousands of dollars in legal fees or a plea to a lesser charge, which is a criminal penalty that was undeserved.
Mr. Long, I've seen pictures now of him handcuffed to the bed, and a Public Safety Officer guarding him. The RIOC PSD blogger ties the beginning of this event. The injuries exist. I'm guessing the reporting of the hospital stay is true. And the lack of charges is true. He was not read his Miranda Rights and had no access to an attorney. All over loitering/trespassing. In short, the main endpoints of this story seem to be confirmed.
Hi Keith.... you're not supposed to be on blogs..... Gotcha...... Get the record straight, I was brutalized by you and your cronies, Alex and Wanda to be exact. I defended myself and I got the bad end of the stick. Thanks for letting the public know the truth and thanks for opening my closed file. I can speak freely now. Rick and Dick could use a god headline story for the press.....
this kid was in handcuffs for 7 days than was never charged . what a mess this is .he really was kidnapped not arrested.this kid is going to be rich.
What injuries were confirmed? So far it's pneumonia. That's not an injury, that's an illness. It was aggravated when he ran and resisted.
You get your rights read to you before questioning. There's no questioning necessary when it comes to trespassing and resisting arrest.
What happened to the other subject? He was sunmonsed and walked away. Never any mention of him though.
Mr. Shane, very nice to hear from you. Sadly, when it came to oversight by the RIOC Board, they were quick exercise that oversight when they felt their privatization interests were at stake and fired you promptly. (As I've expressed publicly, I thought your firing was a terrible decision, on many levels, by the RIOC Board.)
However, when it comes to oversight, the RIOC Board does a very lousy job overseeing Public Safety, as point I made last night at the RIOC Operations Committee meeting. David Kraut had the discourtesy to smile/smirk in the aftermath of a boy nearly killed and as residents told their own horror stories of Public Safety.
Last night Mr. Shinozaki spoke about receiving the daily PSD blotter. My E-mail to him last Thursday was the first he heard about the details, and I had asked him for Public Safety's side of the story.
Let's step back a couple years. In 2008, in response to Public Safety's behavior, Island residents voted in a referendum 1038 to 67 for a review board, but RIOC has done nothing. In 2010 Assemblymember Micah Kellner submitted legislation for a CCRB-like review, but it died in legislation. In Summer of 2009, there was a fiasco with Public Safety at a little league game (also known as The Blue-Beard Incident). There have been other incidents since. In 2012 we have the Stueber Incident, which involved excessive use of force. There was a 21-1 RIRA resolution asking for an investigation and RIRA noted *an ongoing pattern of behavior*. Since October, nothing has been done on the investigation.
But let's see how RIOC has responded: still, five years later, the best the RIOC Board has is the daily PSD blotter (which you can see in the next column on this blog), a one-line no-details summary.
So for Public Safety, which represents one third of RIOC's employees, a $2.9 million department that operates $1.2 million over budget, 43% of its officers aren't patrolling, and there has been five years of serious complaint, a 1-line/incident daily E-mail message is the best suggestions Director Guerra has provided for oversight, and the 1-line/incident E-mail summary is the best that the RIOC Board has demanded, right?
Really, both the RIOC Board and Director Guerra are incompetent when it comes to oversight. But get it the way of those half-million to million dollar profits of 4 of 7 RIOC Directors and their building's privatization, then you will get swift response.
Can't even dignify this with a response. At least Frank can think sometimes. Thanks for playing Kitty.
what the hell kind of training do these officers get.this kid after being held in handcuffs for 7 days .then gets charged with nothing why was he in cuffs for 7 days if there are no
Maybe we, on Roosevelt Island, should do a petition
like this! It's time to suspend the officers involved without pay until a formal investigation is concluded, and possibly even the dept. head, Mr. Guerra!
http://www.change.org/petitions/madison-police-chief-noble-wray-take-officer-stephen-heimsness-off-the-streets?utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition
this is why i think this kid was never charged. . during the 7 days he was handcuffed pbs was hearing that the beating is on the internet.so its best for psd to just let this kid get out of the hos . and charge him with nothing. hoping this will then all go away.see this shows psd ispoorly trained . if this was nypd he would have been charged with anything just to try to cover this mess up..this case will be settled out of court for very big money
Not charging him with something... anything... was actually a rather big mistake. If he had charges stemming from the incident, then he'd effectively need to beat those before suing the department to have any chance of winning his civil claim and it would at least provide some cover for holding him. Instead, they held him in custody, without access to counsel or family for a non-trivial period of time, without lawful purpose.
this comment was not from former RIOC President Steve Shane. I leave it to community to speculate as to who or why would want to give the impression it was from the former RIOC President.
see if this beating was not on alot of cell phones psd could have charged him with resisting arrest.this is what nypd always doses to justify a beating whish is most of tbe time b. s .but in todays age of cell phones this is all over the net..so psd was hoping with not charging this kid with anything this would go away
Hey expert. If you say anything post arrest, it's called spontaneous utterance. There's no need for questioning for summary arrests. Get your facts straight.
thank god for cell phones. other wise this would be a b.s story of this kid resisting arrest.
Is it too much to ask that the PSD try eating a salad once in a while?
Mr. Prozakis, sounds like you don't understand your own words.
"CUSTODY is the Miranda equivalent of arrest. It does not include traffic stops or brief field interviews based on reasonable suspicion. Nor does it apply to telephone calls, since the suspect is always free to hang up. There is no litmus test (checklist), but an objective test is used to determine if custody occurs. The officer's subjective intent to arrest does not matter. What matters is if, objectively, a reasonable person would believe that an officer conveyed, by words or actions, that a suspect is not free to leave. It also does not matter why the suspect is in custody."
"The Supreme Court has treated interrogation as testimony (spoken or written words), or its functional equivalent. Anything like spontaneous utterances or asking a suspect to write down in their own words what happened is the functional equivalent of interrogation."
Take from a Constitutional Law course: "Miranda Law: A Guide to the Privilege Against Self-Incrimination" (see "http://faculty.ncwc.edu/mstevens/410/410lect19.htm").
Thus, anything said at that point (including spontaneous utterances) can, and has been used as part of the criminal complaint by Public Safety. Which is the reason why Public Safety needs to read Miranda Rights as soon as the subject is in custody, i.e., they no longer have the freedom of movement.
Next time you post, why not try a Google search first.
Hey, I think I know way more than you, sir. Don't be a google hero. There is absolutely no reason to read someone their Miranda rights for summary arrests. There is a need for interrogations. It's a myth that every arrestee needs Miranda read to them. There is a reason why a district attorney specifically asks an officer if the subject made any spontaneous comments during arrest. Clarification is needed as this is a made up myth regarding Miranda and when it's being read. If he was questioned while in handcuffs, that requires Miranda without a doubt. If its a summary arrest or an observed offense, there is no need. If the defendant is accused by a witness or victim and the defendant is caught, he will be sat down and given the opportunity to say his side of the story, via Miranda warnings.
cant you people understand.this wasa big cover up. but it did notwork.buy not charging this kid. psd was hoping that the kids mother would be so happy with the kid not being charged with anything. the mother would just go home with her son. and that would be the end of it.this must be the reason why after holding this kid in handcuffs to a bed for 7 days and then say okay you can go home now. really..if guerr is not gone over this than he will be with psd for ever.psd rolled the dice .and lose
As I will exercise my 1st amendment rights on this response, I would like to point out that unless we have straight facts and all of this decided in a court of law with evidence (whether that be video or audio or photos or whatever the case may be) - ANYONE can make up a story, that being from the "victim's" mouth or the "law enforcement's" mouth. And this is how the internet can make or break the truth, and can ruin lives and reputations whether they are true or not.
Example?
Anyone can go around and say "Hey I heard a few years back that Mr Frank Farance was caught downstairs in the basement area of Island House with a young child who was not his, and was possibly touching the child inappropriately"
Could be true, could be false, but it sure as hell was what I heard when I was working for RIOC on numerous accounts from numerous island residents. My notions towards you was automatically that of negative, but I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt due to me having an open mind.
With that, I all suggest we wait on facts before we rule for the plaintiff or the defendant, because you really don't want to go only by "what you hear"
Should we have a press conference?
Btw - to the moderator of this board - this is all freedom of speech. I will hope you leave this comment up as it is clearly making a good point and I am sure people would want to "know the truth"
Obviously I'm not Mr. Shane. I'm a former RIOC employee who think it's funny to see Moreo posting here. The "Mr. Shane" handle is a poor jab at humor.
I'm not the psd director either because i used Mr. Shane's name because I don't even know the names of this president. That's all.
As I will exercise my 1st amendment rights on this response, I would like to point out that unless we have straight facts and all of this decided in a court of law with evidence (whether that be video or audio or photos or whatever the case may be) - ANYONE can make up a story, that being from the "victim's" mouth or the "law enforcement's" mouth. And this is how the internet can make or break the truth, and can ruin lives and reputations whether they are true or not.
Example?
Anyone can go around and say "Hey I heard a few years back that Mr Frank Farance was caught downstairs in the basement area of Island House with a young child who was not his, and was possibly touching the child inappropriately"
Could be true, could be false, but it sure as hell was what I heard when I was working for RIOC on numerous accounts from numerous island residents. My notions towards you was automatically that of negative, but I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt due to me having an open mind.
With that, I all suggest we wait on facts before we rule for the plaintiff or the defendant, because you really don't want to go only by "what you hear"
Should we have a press conference?
Btw - to the moderator of this board - this is all freedom of speech. I will hope you leave this comment up as it is clearly making a good point and I am sure people would want to "know the truth"
This board does not allow people to exercise their 1st amendment rights. The moderator picks and chooses what can be posted, just as he picks what goes on the blog.
In a custodial situation, officers are well-served to advise a prisoner of his rights.
Yes, spontaneous statements can sometimes be later used, it's also possible for those same statements to be ruled inadmissible. Statements given by a prisoner who, handcuffed to a bed and guarded by officers at all times, while excluding access to family and counsel, are not the type a court will usually be eager to admit into evidence. Had he made any incriminating statements during the circumstances described (which, I note, nobody has alleged), it's unlikely that they would be considered spontaneous. Conduct by the police of this type is likely to produce an incriminating response. Keep in mind, under Innis, express questioning isn't required for it to be an interrogation.
There is now way i will allow you to make such an charge even when you couch it with the language that "I heard". Particularly when done anonymously so there is no personal accountability for your words.
The First Amendment applies to actions by the government limiting speech, not comments in a newspaper on online blog.
As I will exercise my 1st amendment rights on this response, I would like to point out that unless we have straight facts and all of this decided in a court of law with evidence (whether that be video or audio or photos or whatever the case may be) - ANYONE can make up a story, that being from the "victim's" mouth or the "law enforcement's" mouth. And this is how the internet can make or break the truth, and can ruin lives and reputations whether they are true or not.
Example?
Anyone can go around and say "Hey I heard a few years back that Mr Frank Farance was caught downstairs in the basement area of Island House with a young child who was not his, and was possibly touching the child inappropriately"
Could be true, could be false, but it sure as hell was what I heard when I was working for RIOC on numerous accounts from numerous island residents. My notions towards you was automatically that of negative, but I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt due to me having an open mind.
With that, I all suggest we wait on facts before we rule for the plaintiff or the defendant, because you really don't want to go only by "what you hear"
Should we have a press conference?
Btw - to the moderator of this board - this is all freedom of speech. I will hope you leave this comment up as it is clearly making a good point and I am sure people would want to "know the truth"
Bill (and everyone now that I wrote this whole spiel)
It seems like you are trying to be level-headed when it comes to these situations, but it seems like the frequency of these complaints has gotten to you.
Nothing has come of any other complaint before. Yes it sounds ridiculous to think that people just keep making stories up, but I was there for more than two years. I saw it countless times from the residents on the island.
Do you know who we didn't get brutality complaints from? The people we arrested who were off islanders. Do you know why? My opinion is that they don't know that it's easy to piggy back on the instances prior to this.
Using the word brutality is a serious thing. This is absolutely a case of alleged brutality. There hasn't been ONE single case in my recollection before it that has ever resulted in injuries, therefore those aren't alleged brutality cases. It trivializes any potential case that has merit.
Now, as you said, if the allegations here are true, then it's a terrible ordeal, but we literally have zero facts that tell us anything.
The three things I can think of are this:
1. The subject was admitted to the hospital for pneumonia
2. He was arrested for trespassing and resisting arrest
3. The district attorney decided to decline prosecution.
Public Safety's biggest issue and only issue really is that the DA declined to prosecute. That's usually a negative for the police side of things. This supposed beating, cracked rib, and punctured lung hasn't been verified whatsoever.
He didn't look beat up to me and he didn't go straight to the hospital.
More points... The mother is freaking out that she couldn't see her child. Well, he was arrested and 20 years old. There's no reason for her to see him.
The other part of the story that we don't know (because RIOC can't comment) is why was he running, how was he stopped from running, and why didn't his friend who didn't get arrested not run with him.
My final thing is this... I was a plainclothes detective at Public Safety, all these "innocent" boys are not angels. That doesn't mean they're criminals, bad eggs, or anything like that but the parents have to take a hard look at them, their facebooks, their twitters, and take a look at the gang actions they take. They're not sweet little kids. They're young men who are doing not nice things.
I don't want to comment too much more on this post until we get new information because nobody is going to change someone's mind based on hearsay.
Oh yea.. and Frank Farance is completely wrong about the miranda warnings.You do not need to be mirandized for every arrest.
If anyone wants to have an open discussion about what I know or don't know about how this stuff works in regards to public safety and would like to hear any non-public thoughts of mine, just contact me on twitter and I'll give you an email address to contact me on.
It's been fun conversing with all of you.
@twitter-546865736:disqus
Ok Keith. Sour grapes is a phrase only used by you and Martinez. In addition, only Martinez knew of my intentions with PSD following Fry's departure. Afterall, I was running emergency management at that time. Anything you would like to know?
But you don't get cracked ribs, broken teeth and lacerations from pneumonia. The x-rays and medical records should be made available to the DA's office. Cracked ribs, punctured lungs - these things don't happen as a result of pneumonia.
Correct. I think Mr. Farance is once again trying to reference a different case.
He seems to think as soon as the cuffs go on a subject, they need to be read their rights otherwise some grave injustice has been performed.
Miranda is not necessary for 99% of the Public Safety arrests, and there's never been a hearing that's even required the use of a subject's statement.
As the first detective promoted under Chief Guerra, I made a whole heck of a lot of arrests. I used Miranda when necessary.
For instance, the time I recovered 30 bags of crack and cocaine plus ridiculous amount of money on Roosevelt Island.
The kid was beaten almost to death. And there were no charges filed. Also - he was not resisting arrest, instead fully complied with the directions of the police. These are the facts. No wonder Guerra tried to cover up what he and the PSD officers who actually beat the kid did.
It's going to be up to a Grand Jury to weigh the evidence and decide if the beating was "justified". Police beatings are never "justified". Those that administered the beating and directed the subsequent cover-up (Cmdr. Guerra) should and most likely will face charges. This will send a message to law enforcement: Cops cannot get away with near-murder - not in our society.
We cannot have defenseless civilians beaten and nearly murdered at will by the police, merely for standing upon the sidewalk.
Ant Lefy: Your post is pure bs. An example of wanting to kill the message by killing the messenger. Got any more "creative" stories about other Island activists? Or maybe some made-up stories about Jones himself, or his family? Nobody is going to "buy" your inane attempt at a gutless, nonsensical smear, no matter who is the target. You've run out of credible arguments to defend PSD and so you resort to personal attacks of an "imaginary" nature. Pathetic.
Not if it were me, Mr. Prozakis - or you. If you were busted, you would just lie there for days, uncared for, barred from seeing relatives, and not want to get representation? If it were me, I'd immediately call family and ask them to get an attorney...
Mr. Prozakis, you're talking as if the detainee were actually in a position to answer questions, either Mirandized or not. Mr. Anthony Jones was in no shape to do so - because of the vicious beating administered to him by the PSD officers. This is the glaring, incontrovertible fact - the kid was beaten nearly to death by PSD officers, whether Miranda was read to him before or after is immaterial - that the Grand Jury will have to consider when weighing the evidence.
Malone, you work in PSD for two years as a favor to your father, who is friends with Guerra. Don't you work as a sports caster now for High School???? You are not a subject matter expert in this son. I suggest you punt ....
Agreed... you let me know when you see those medical records.
There's ZERO evidence of any of that though. 0... Zero... Cero.
You're just going off an allegation. They're not charging anyone with anything in a grand jury... do you know why? Because this is about money.
The mother wants to settle out of court and get money. $$$$$$$$
But.. everything Farance has ever said, written, etc is "I heard" Why don't you delete him...
Because you've proven that you're not a media source, you're just one guy who chooses sides based on his political affiliation. That right there is why RIOC stopped giving you anything as if you were truly "the media."
He's also not saying it anonymously.
Where are these cell phone videos???? If there was anything of substance on them... the lawyer would've produced them.
There's nothing on youtube. There's nothing anywhere.
there are people on the island who have the beating on their cell phones
If I were representing the victim, I'd not want people do do this, but since I'm not, I'll leave these links here:
http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=57407
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/contacts.php
I'm sure the victim's attorney has provided them to the DA's office.
Mike,
You're the expert, then? My two years at PSD is more experience than some second rate volunteer firefighter. Do you not think I and most of the guys hired with me improved Public Safety while I was there?
Two years of working in a uniform and out, dealing with parking tickets, noise complaints all the way to plainclothes car stops with drug sales, fights on the regular, and countless fully processed arrests makes me an expert when it comes to this discussion, yes.
I'm not in Public Safety anymore, I've moved on for a multitude of reasons, not all of them are positive. I had my fair share of issues with people too, but...
A favor to my father? I earned that job, my promotion, and everything else I did there.
Search my name on this blog, let me know how many times it comes up for being successful at my job.
Trying to disrespect me by calling me son and calling me out is for what reason? Cause you're a coward, maybe?
Of course PSD is insured - and those funds will cover the civil case. That doesn't absolve us from our societal responsibility, which is, because the officers nearly murdered a civilian, they should face criminal charges. Even if there is a financial settlement, society doesn't just "wash its hands of the matter". And why are you so sure a grand jury won't indict the cops who beat him, as well as Guerra for trying to "protect" those cops?
Kitty, you're still just making things up. You have no credibility. You don't know ANY facts at all, zilch. Seriously you look like the most ignorant person on the island.
Mr. Lyon, Chris Enock and I are setting up a Facebook page to collect videos/photos of Public Safety and post them anonymously.
Excellent. Section1Guy: The videos will be the "star" witnesses.. unshakable evidence
Seems like a good idea, Raye. I'd sign if you set it up. And put in on fb.
Mr. Prozakis, you're a troubled and defective police officer, who believes he knows a lot, but who knows it wrongly. Sounds like you're more interested in curtailing one's rights.
So, according to you, arresting someone in the purported commission of a crime (i.e., a summary arrest) does not require notifying the person that they have a right to remain silent, they have a right to an attorney, and other Miranda Rights? What the subject says can/will be used in the criminal complaint, and the reading of the Miranda Rights is essential. But you're not interested in preserving and respecting those rights, as you clearly demonstrate.
Oh, well - I expect that from you. Why don't you try to make up some imaginative slander about me while you're at it? Of course you would say that I, and everyone else calling for justice for Anthony Jones, am ignorant because that's what you would like to see: A community of complacent "idiots", right? Citizens going about their business as fellow citizens are deprived of their rights and nearly beaten to death for - nothing!
Sorry to disappoint you but things do not work that way, not in the US. We don't "look the other way". That's why we have the court system - it's how society redresses wrongs.
So the agonizing issue is not "going away" - it's going to remain front and center unless and until we hear that justice will take its course, meaning the DA calling for a grand jury to examine the evidence followed by, most likely the indictment of the murderous officers, as well as Guerra - who deprived the young man of his civil rights and tried to cover up the consequences of the brutality.
RIOC is already referring the matter to the State for investigation.
What is the remedy for the PSD? It seems to me it should be replaced by a branch of the NYPD or the State Police. The entire PSD is corrupted and PSD personnel should be transferred to some other State unit or dismissed outright.
Section1Guy (John Malone, aka "The Patch Guy"), Mr. Moreo is right, you're just a sports reporter, you did little in Public Safety. Director Guerra told me about guys like you: ones who really were not cut out for law enforcement, and that's what your career seems to be.
So I checked your history on this blog.
- May 28, 2008: Played in the 3 on 3 basketball tournament (PSD won).
- September 3, 2008: You used an extinguisher to put out a stove fire.
- June 30, 2009: You lifted a fellow officer over the railing ("Sgt. Raul Hernandez led the rescue effort by the Public Safety
Department. Det. John Malone lowered him onto the rocks because they
couldn't see the jumper.")
You say "Search my name on this blog, let me know how many times it comes up for being successful at my job", so I count three times you've done something minor. Maybe you're in the same class as Sgt. Ingrid Veras who received multiple awards/medals for the mundane, e.g., running up three flights of stairs to chase someone.
According to your linked in profile, your main skills are: Storytelling, Blogging, Facebook, Sports, Radio, Media Relations, Social Networking, Social Media, Television, Editing, Public Relations, Social Media Marketing, Public Speaking, Entertainment, Online Advertising.
I don't see law enforcement in your skills. And, really, who puts STORYTELLING as a main skill on their Linked In page, you're a LIGHTWEIGHT, right?
Here's your resume:
Staff Writer/Web Editor: MSGVarsity Network
January 2010 – Present (3 years 2 months) Used my knowledge of regional athletics to write, edit, and produce features, articles, interviews, and weekly notebooks for a variety of sports across all seasons
- Posted and edited content on website including photos
- Contributed articles and features to fall, winter, and spring editions of MSGVarsity Magazine
- Managed multiple twitter accounts for MSGVarsity to help build the brand
Freelance Contributor: Patch.com
Public Company; 1001-5000 employees;
Internet industry 2011
– 2011 (less than a year) Pearl River, NY
Covered the 2011 Little League Tournament while becoming friendly with
the players, parents, and coaches of the teams. Well received and referred to as "The Patch Guy" by parents.
Detective: Roosevelt Island Public Safety
March 2008 – August 2010 (2 years 6 months)
Co-Founder: Section1Recruiting, Inc.
March 2004 – March 2008 (4 years 1 month)
So can we safely conclude: (1) you're not cut out for law enforcement (you yourself don't consider you having law enforcement skills on your Linked In profile), and (2) you're a lightweight. Mr. Moreo is right, right?
A police officer would have no reason to question someone in custody. If a police officer is not questioning the arrestee,there is no point in doing so. If a cop was to ask him questions, then absolutely Miranda is to be read. What's so hard to understand? Stop spinning things.
How was he nearly beaten to death? I saw him standing up in the video. It was leaned he had pneumonia. I'm sure it was not given to him by any officer. I clearly saw a mark on his face which looked like a big scrape. He had a fractured rib. Ok. I have had a fractured rib also and that was simply from falling on a curb. I am by no means taking sides, I am very weary of these matters. The mother did not even shed a tear, just made up voice cracking.
For someone who was nearly beaten to death from about two weeks ago, he looks pretty good. Another reason to be cautious.
As I understand the report, he was misdiagnosed as having pneumonia. Instead, it turned out his lungs were full of blood from a puncture caused by the fractured rib. I'm certain medical records will demonstrate whether or not he was injured, but the "PSD officers monitoring for days in the hospital" leads me to believe the medical problem wasn't pneumonia. PSD isn't in the business of monitoring health conditions (but if they caused the condition, I could understand their desire to monitor).
I had noticed fewer gangs on main street, kids running around corridors in eastwood and smoke drifting from stairwells. Now I see why.
You've done everyone a major service by taking apart this troll. And Moreo is right!
Some here have already drawn their own conclusions about what actually happened, and their minds won't be changed. I myself have not made a judgement because I don't see all the facts displayed. Yes, there is Frank's story, as told to him by the mother. Then there is the mother's story, which has changed a couple of times (from the Daily News to the News Conference). I get it. She is a mom, and I would protect my son no matter what too. Now, I'm not saying it did not happen the way the story is being told, but, let us ask a few questions before we rush to judgement.
1.) Do we know for sure if the incident happened the way the story is being told? If it did, I'd be pissed off too. If it didn't, then I'd be making a bad judgement call jumping on a band-wagon, No?
2.) Rick's first listing of the incident from the daily blotter said two men were arrested. What happened to other man?
3.) I myself have called PS when I've seen people in the stairwells. Don't we want stairwells clear of people in them? Not only for what they may be doing with each other, but also for what they may do to those trying to walk down?
I hear neighbors getting on PS for not patrolling enough in the buildings, but then we don't want them to do anything when they find things. It seems contradictory to me. As I said in another post, I think Frank is right when he says, maybe they could get a warning first, and then be arrested if their behavior persists. But, I only feel that way for residents. If they live off-island, I want them arrested for trespassing in my building.
Eastwood Rez: I appreciate your points, but let's game this out for the parties. I can understand that some people think the attorney is an ambulance chaser. But, truth be told about high profile attorneys, they are in it for vanity ... they want to win, which has the additional benefit of helping their clients, too. :-)
So the person who is at the biggest risk is the attorney: he would personally suffer credibility loss if this story was way wrong. At the press conference, he seemed to command attention from the press, and you don't get that kind of pull by pushing bogus stories.
Both sides have the medical records (as we saw in the Stueber Incident). So let's pretend some key points, such as the fractured ribs and punctured lung were false. All it would take would be for RIOC to issue a statement like "The medical records show no evidence of fractured ribs or punctured lung" and the attorney's balloon would pop. One doesn't allow oneself that much exposure (attorney telling all the news outlets) if the story can be completely destroyed.
RIOC would gain a huge advantage for popping this balloon because: (1) it would get the pressure off the RIOC Board for looking like a bunch of incompetent idiots providing no oversight, (2) it would get the pressure off of Guerra and Public Safety (one third of RIOC's employees), and (3) it might staunch this avalanche that is about to consume Guerra and Public Safety.
Guerra has a huge stake in seeing the attorney's story punctured because the community is pretty much fed up with him (people want him to go, and there will be at a public demonstration in the next week or so). Waiting until a trial to present RIOC's counterarguments that could clear Guerra and PSD? That might be a year later, Guerra won't survive that long and nor will Public Safety. Settling before trial (always a plus) is likely to mean the full story won't out, to RIOC's and PSD's disadvantage.
Certainly, we'd all like a better understanding and more details on some of the points.
Lastly, I agree with you that people should not be disruptive (noise, smoking, drinking, drugs, etc.), so I'm not suggesting we allow that, and I agree with you that Public Safety should be called. My point is: people do need to congregate and there seems to be no place 2-3 people can stand and have a conversation without it being subject to so-called trespassing.
As for patrolling the buildings, Yes I want them to do the full vertical patrols, but if my neighbor's 12-year old daughter is sitting outside their apartment *quietly* with her girlfriends chatting and doing homework after school, I don't want them handcuffed, arrested, and summonsed for trespassing because (to quote Patty Fallone from last night's RIOC Operations Committee Meeting) "they are just doing the normal things kids do".
A lung punctured by a fractured rib is life-threatening if it is not attended to properly. Any lung puncture is potentially life-threatening. If not attended to properly, a patient would be subject to life-threatening infections such as pneumonia. There is possibility of collapsed lung - which is also often a fatal condition despite medical attention. It is unbelievable that Mr. Jones was cuffed to his bed and denied medical care for several days by the PSD. Perhaps PSD did wish to see Mr. Jones die - and it was for this reason they prevented him being cared for by the hospital personnel. The victim looked wan and "lifeless" at the news conference. Don't minimize the beating Mr. Jones suffered, Mr. Prozakis. We'll soon see the videos - which should put to rest any doubts about the beating.
Where do you get this? How can he be denied medical treatment for several days? I'm sure they did not lock him up in the basement. I can pretty much guarantee EMS was called immediately after complaints by the injured.
Of course he will look wan and lifeless! That's the direction of a lawyer. I guess it's a phenomenon that defendants during trial all magically wear glasses to look more educated and to sway the jury into believing "this guy couldn't have done that, he's wearing glasses". Right.
You keep saying beaten to death. I don't see swollen eye sockets, I don't see him still in a hospital bed. A fractured rib could have happened from anything. Perhaps he is getting even with psd from him being a bad kid? None of us know the true history of this guy. Every parent says not my child, he's or she's a good person, never in trouble. Only to find out he or she is total opposite.
Case in point, look at the 7 yr old who was handcuffed. His parents said he was an angel and never bad, only to find out he swung an iron fist and was a big bully in school.
I will wait for my verdict until all facts are available. I think everyone should do the same. There are way to many things that could have happened to cause a simple fractured rib, which in turn caused another internal injury. It could have been accidental if all we know. If alll we know he could have fell off those steps while running away.
Anything could have happened. If he was actively resisting, a person can very well be injured. Why call for heads to roll if you only heard a single side of a story. That's rediculous.
How come Frank is allowed to post these kind of things but others would be censored?
Let's see them first.
In Nelson Muntz's (from the Simpsons) voice: HA-Haw.
Agreed. There is so much hate for the PSD going around that nobody cares to wait for both sides' stories.
John,
As a "second rate firefighter", I served as a Lieutenant and also as a state certified EMT for 6 years. I saved many lives and I even had a few die in my arms. I, as a volunteer (like 90% of firefighters in NYS), performed my duties at working fires, car accidents and numerous standbys in terrible weather, leaving my family when they needed me most, to serve my community, proudly.
I took that education in the fire service (which by definition is a form of public safety), and applied it to RIOC in the function of Emergency Management. I served the community by building lasting relationships, provided leadership and earned the respect from the community, more so than any member of the Public Safety Department.
I helped the community start up the local CERT Team, I provided open forums to discuss emergency planning concerns, I lead exercises in emergency operating procedures and I wrote "The Bible" of emergency operating procedures on how to run the corporation in varying emergency situations. In fact, I was Incident Commander during Hurricane Irene. You won't find that information anywhere because it was covered up by Martinez to protect Guerra's ego as I had him removed from command for not following protocol. If you are not satisfied with my word, FOIL it...
I referred to you as son, not in disrespect, but in our age difference and that is see you in need of some guidance. I did not mean to offend you by calling you son, I apologize if you took it in a demeaning way. John, you are defending Guerra. Why? Guerra is not a effective leader, has not earned the respect of the community in which he serves, and is a bully. His tactics and ineptness cost me my job, creating financial hardships on me, my family, my children. He does not care how he impacts others. He believes he is above it all. John, you got into something, that quite honestly, you should not have. Two years as a Public Safety Officer makes you knowledgeable, but you are not a subject matter expert, you have not served the community as I have, you do not know the "behind the scenes" happenings of the organization as a Director would.
I said what I did to you to set that record straight, not to "attack" you. The people on this blog deserve to know who is giving information and from what background they have. I wish you well in your endeavors and best of luck to you.
YetAnotherRIer, Mr. Malone invited the search and supports the points Mr. Moreo made: Mr. Malone had a short career at PSD, and it appears PSD was his only law enforcement work.
It's not hard to click on Mr. Malone's avitar, which points to his twitter account, which says:
Section1Guy
@Section1Guy
I'm a Little League coach, UFC fan, and Disney fanatic. Duke BBall, Arsenal, Reading FC, and Yankees.
Greenburgh, NY
http://llworldseries.blogspot.com
which link points to a blog that has his name: John Malone.
Really, this is all public and easily accessed, as many people do when reading comments on this blog, and it was relevant to understanding the nature of a former PSD officer, as Mr. Malone invited the search.
There's a big difference. I don't allow anonymous comments to assert that a named individual committed a crime (or to infer the same) or to post defamatory comments. Frank does not do that. If he does it will be removed as well.
Also, when I saw the comment you referenced, I spoke to Frank and asked him to edit portions of it which he did.
I do my best to use the same standards for all comments and would much prefer that civil and courteous discussions be maintained.
Good one Frank...
So a kid being a smart ass and running from PSD is reason to dam near be killed?
You can't tell a mother how to respond and just because you can't see Mr. Jones injuries does not mean they don't exist.
If you love being a PSD officer so much why did you leave? And no the residents want PSD to act like Peace Officers not Police Officers and that's the problem. PSD have been very aggressive for years but its only now that they have taken it too far to ignore. Nothing last forever and PSD and their boss Guerra time has come to answer to a higher power because the residents of RI. are letting this one go...
Read the account and listen to the press conference. The mother says her son was covered with blood and not cared for, and was cuffed to his bed. It was afterwards that the determination of a punctured lung was made, and the blood removed from the lung. Letting a patient rot in bed with no care, no bathing, nothing - at the direction of PSD obviously, since any hospital would have at least cleaned the patient up. Just read the account and listen to the press conference again.
Depositions will be given, and evidence such as the medical records turned over to the DA, as well as the video. I don't see the DA not convening a grand jury to consider the case. A grand jury composed of ordinary people seeing what happened - they most likely will recommend proceeding to file charges. Put Guerra & the officers on trial and let them swear the young man "magically" was injured, that PSD had nothing to do with anything! Let's see how far they get with that defense. The young man was fine one minute, and hospitalized with a slew of injuries the next. These injuries didn't just "happen". They were inflicted on him - by PSD officers.
But there's video - and that will be the "unshakable witness".
Sorry - I don't think PSD should get a free pass this time. They've gotten away with a lot till now, but putting a young man in the hospital for several days; no, that's going too far. If PSD had acted in a "humane" manner - then the victim wouldn't have had to be hospitalized for several days. Remember: Hospitals are acute care facilities. They don't just let people stay there for a "rest cure". The young man was severely injured - removing a large volume of blood from a lung is definitely not minor, it's highly serious. Otherwise he would have been discharged after a day or two, or maybe simply seen in the ER and sent home. But he wasn't - because he was that beat up.
The entire incident - beating a young man when he is complying with directions, cuffing him to a bed, denying him care - or, having care denied to him, then refusing to release information - meanwhile, the young man isn't even charged with anything; the entire incident sounds like something out of Franz Kafka. Imprisonment with no charges. Beatings. This is what a totalitarian regime does. I refuse to accept that we have to live under this kind of "law" enforcement regime, where "anything goes". The cops are supposed to be there to protect us, not beat us. We shouldn't have unlawful imprisonment of innocent people, or beatings, by PSD. And PSD even corrupted the hospital in getting them to not take care of the young man.
I don't think we should just wait a year or more for the results of the State inquiry. PSD needs a complete overhaul now and the officers that assaulted the young man should at least be put on suspension pending a grand jury investigation.
Oh, we're waiting all right. I guess Guerra wants us all to wait for a year or more until the State investigation is complete. Fat chance. The only way Guerra and the PSD officers who beat the young man will ever talk, or, as you put it "give their side of the story" is if they're put on a stand and cross-examined under oath. PSD and its corrupt practices will finally be put under a microscope, and the light of a court case should result in the needed overhaul.
A police officer and a peace officer are the same thing. The only exception a peace officer cannot simply arrest someone solely on an outstanding warrant. That's it. No other differences. So in essence a peace officer is acting in the scope of a police office while working. What's so hard to comprehend?
. PSD took him to the hospital. Who let him rot? They called EMS right away and they took him to the hospital. PSD cannot refuse a doctor from seeing him. If there is anyone to blame it would be the misdiagnosis of the hospital, it it's true he did not have walking pneumonia and it was really the fractured rib that caused this. It's not PSD problem to bathe the patient. Again, the hospital. If the mother was not allowed to see him, then who took the photos?.
There are so many holes in this story if you look and analyze every point correctly instead of just running full speed into a brick wall.
If a private criminal attorney was called, that's one thing. If a private civil attorney was called, he will have to wait until discharge.
Hate to burst your bubble, but attorneys aren't limited to civil or criminal practice. One can even do both. True, we don't know whether he requested one or whether one tried to reach him, but that's not particularly material to his claims.
Taking away a person and restraining them under lock and guard in a hospital, denying access to those who were trying to reach him (such as his mother) without consent or lawful authority is at a minimum unlawful imprisonment and, if done to intimidate or prevent reporting of the abuse he received, kidnapping. The latter can be a class A-I felony, with penalties ranging from 15-25 years in jail for all involved.
Mr. Prozakis, can you explain the licensing distinction between a "criminal attorney" and a "civil attorney", and where in the law it makes this distinction, especially when accessing their client? According to you, a so-called "criminal attorney" has some kind of certificate/badge that allows him/her to see a client (as per Miranda Rights), whereas a "civil attorney" does not.
At 60 (civil), 80 (civil), and 100 (criminal) Center Street, I don't recall the attorney ID cards looking different, so how would the hospital staff know? And the NYS Unified Courts System makes no such distinction in their attorney database.
Let's face it, since you're on the law enforcement side (you're a cop), you don't think much about how defendants are protected, right?
You simply never know. I know for one thing. You are not a cop and you don't know any facts. Neither do I or anyone here. I do know what happens in the wheels of justice, you do not.
If all we know the civil attorney was called before any criminal lawyer was called. Papers were probably served before he was even discharged from the hospital if all we know. Again, I don't know, you don't know. I never said there was a distinction, never said there is a difference in ID.
For the record I am not siding with anyone, it's just hard for me or anyone to decipher what really happened.
I want to know who took the pictures at the hospital then.
I agree, I was playing semantics for sake of who know or what if because nobody knows.
As peace officers, if Public Safety is authorized to use deadly force, then why was that necessary here? So-called "trespassing" is not a felony and the law makes a distinction. And since he was unarmed, handcuffed, maced, and on the ground, he presented no deadly threat to the officer, so why was deadly force used? How does Public Safety's training rationalize deadly force in this case?
N.Y. PEN. LAW § 35.30 : NY Code - Section 35.30:
Justification; use of physical force in making an arrest or in
preventing an escape
1. A police officer or a peace officer, in the course of effecting or attempting to effect an arrest, or of preventing or attempting to prevent the escape from custody, of a person whom he or she reasonably believes to have committed an offense, may use physical force when and to the extent he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to effect the arrest, or to prevent the escape from custody, or in self-defense or to defend a third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of physical force; except that deadly physical force may be used for such purposes only when he or she reasonably believes that:
(a) The offense committed by such person was:
(i) a felony or an attempt to commit a felony involving the use or attempted use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person; or
(ii) kidnapping, arson, escape in the first degree, burglary in the first degree or any attempt to commit such a crime; or
(b) The offense committed or attempted by such person was a felony and that, in the course of resisting arrest therefor or attempting to escape from custody, such person is armed with a firearm or deadly weapon; or
(c) Regardless of the particular offense which is the subject of the arrest or attempted escape, the use of deadly physical force is necessary to defend the police officer or peace officer or another person from what the officer reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force.
2. The fact that a police officer or a peace officer is justified in using deadly physical force under circumstances prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of subdivision one does not constitute justification for reckless conduct by such police officer or peace officer amounting to an offense against or with respect to innocent persons whom he or she is not seeking to arrest or retain in custody.
Mr. Prozakis, you;re a lousy cop, and potentially an abusive one. According to you, no swollen eye sockets ==> can't be near death. ("You keep saying beaten to death. I don't see swollen eye sockets"). So that means you still have a Green Light on beating the crap out of someone as long as you "don't see swollen eye sockets"?
You say lots of wrong/dumb things, yet you maintain that you're a cop ("This is coming from a cop", see Mr. Prozakis' post on "http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/local/austin/tsa-does-surprise-check-at-lamar-amtrak"). You seem to not understand Miranda Rights and you've fabricated in your mind some distinction among attorneys thar rationalizes prohibiting a subject from seeing his/her attorney.
In summary, you say "for the record I am not siding with anyone", but that is not true. If you only see things in a pro-law-enforcement perspective and have an inability to advocate for a defendant's perspective, they you are siding with law enforcement.
If you're not taking sides, then why aren't you insisting: Let's hear Public Safety's official version of the events. NYPD (or any other department) would have their official reporting within 24 hours, but for Public Safety it is three weeks since the incident with no explanation.
The regular police have hell to pay if they put someone in the hospital. There's the CCRB. There's some oversight. The RIPSD has no oversight - and it's about time some form of oversight is implemented! So there is one huge difference between the RIPSD and the regular police - RIPSD feel they can smash heads with impunity, NYPD thinks twice before they go too far. There are no "checks and balances" on RIPSD - a grave mistake of the way RIOC was set up. It's time to have a permanent form of oversight keeping an eye on RIPSD, just like the other PDs have.
Exactly. It's an extreme form of bullying or "insuring" they got their own way, or even "teaching a lesson" - as Toro said in the Mansour incident. All of which is wrong - to say the least. It's misconduct, all of it - the Mansour incident and now the beating of Mr. Jones. They go around cracking heads because they know they can get away with it - because there's no oversight, and because they know they will be backed up by Guerra. Any community with a police dept that feels it's a law unto themselves has a responsibility to structurally change the way the police dept is organized so as to include oversight or a CRB. It's not enough for RIOC or even the Governor to hide behind the State investigation, which may take months. What happens in the meantime? We're supposed to wait around for the next "incident"? And also forget about what happened to Jones as days stretch into weeks and weeks turn into months? That's what RIOC is hoping no doubt - that it will all go away and people will forget. Well we won't forget, not this time. The RIOC organization has got to change to include PSD oversight so that incidents like the Jones beating do not happen again - basically, so that the PSD knows someone is keeping on eye on them. I am not going to stand for Guerra's platitudes anymore, if he does ever decide to meet the community to explain what happened - I don't trust him. The only thing that will make a difference is if there is oversight and if that oversight board or body is codified in an amended RIOC constitution or whatever the governing document of RI is called.
It's standard for a patient to be bathed in bed by the nursing staff if the patient is not ambulatory. Either the cuff was never removed and the patient wasn't permitted to bathe himself if he could walk over to the bathroom, or he wasn't ambulatory in which case it's up to the nursing staff to bathe the patient. Letting a patient remain covered in blood for days is indicative that he wasn't cared for - even the minimum care of a bath was never done. Meanwhile, it took days before the blood was removed from his lung. The only reason something like that could have happened is that PSD was interfering with the patient's care. A chest x-ray would have been standard if he was receiving care for pneumonia - it would then have revealed that he had something other than pneumonia. So he wasn't receiving care for pneumonia if he never even had a chest x-ray done. It really sounds like PSD was interfering with the patient's care on many levels. Maybe they were hoping he would just expire - and they could then find a way to sweep the entire incident under the rug. The point is - the hospital was compromised in not caring for the patient. The only party that could have been responsible for the negligence would be Guerra - restricting the mom's access to the patient and no doubt telling the nursing staff on the floor to not do anything for that patient. This is completely against the law, medical ethics, and so forth and so on. You don't have someone admitted to an acute care facility - a hospital, and then do nothing for them. Guerra is behind the whole story - Mr. Jones is very lucky indeed to have survived Guerra's deadly "efforts".
No law enforcement officer is to interfere with medical aid for a prisoner. Hospital staff will not even allow an officer to deny care as per laws governed. What needs to be done, will be done.
You know all of this how? No officer will deny any medical aid, period. No hospital will allow an officer to deny them taking care of the patient, period.
At this point you are completely making things up with absolutely no facts. Which is not fair for anyone at this point.
I want to see how he was beaten to near death. Dumb things to you as you are a google expert. I am playing devils advocate and using semantics at this point because I want to hear the facts and not negative propaganda. Everyone is full of assumptions. Other than a single side of a story, I can't imagine someone being beaten to near death and then sitting at the press conference about 2 weeks later is correct.
Can you?
So what if I am an experienced police officer. This makes me a bigger skeptic. You have no idea the lengths people will go through for a lawsuit.
We can play this game all day, everyday. I am interested in facts, period.
Do we know this for a fact? Or are we playing with no facts again. I would not be surprised if they chased his, he fell down the stairs, officers toppled on him to subdue him, and that is how he got his injuries. I still want to see video or evidence of him being beaten while maced and handcuffed as you said.
Who will be in charge of this board?. Sounds like a good idea, but how can it be made sure that it is an unbiased, fair board?
GerogeProzakis, you don't know much about law enforcement in New York City if you're unfamiliar with a CCRB. Micah Kellner's legislation is the right approach.
----------------------------
["http://assembly.state.ny.us/mem/Micah-Kellner/story/37097/"]
Assembly Member Kellner Introduces Bill to Create New York State Civilian Complaint Review Board
Assembly Member Micah Z. Kellner (D-Manhattan) introduces legislation bringing independent oversight of state police
April 19, 2010
New York’s bewildering array of state police forces will be brought together under a new independent watchdog, according to legislation just introduced by Assembly Member Micah Z. Kellner (D, WFP). The bill (A. 10618) would create a civilian complaint review board to monitor police and peace officers employed by the State of New York – from state troopers and Port Authority Police to parks police, animal control officers, and tax enforcers.
The board, modeled after the New York City Civilian Complaint Review Board, will be empowered to investigate complaints about misconduct by officers employed by New York State agencies, public authorities, and public benefit corporations, and to recommend disciplinary action as appropriate – including forwarding cases to district attorneys where necessary.
“This is critical to improving trust between New Yorkers and law enforcement,” Assembly Member Kellner said. “We have seen controversies ranging from allegations that state troopers attempted to influence a witness for political reasons, to complaints about excessive force by the Public Safety Department on Roosevelt Island, which is in the district I represent. When there’s a claim that an officer acted abusively, we need a review process that everyone can have faith in.”
The board will have subpoena power, and will employ experienced investigators to examine allegations of abuse of authority or excessive force. Any member of the public will be able to initiate an investigation, as will the board itself. In cases where misconduct allegations are substantiated, the board will recommend appropriate disciplinary action – and if no action is taken by an officer’s employer, the case will be forwarded to the local district attorney.
“Our state government has created dozens of different police forces, of all shapes and sizes,” Assembly Member Kellner said. “They do important work, but when there’s a dispute, officers and civilians alike are
thrown to the mercy of dozens of different internal review processes – which are often murky and inconsistent. My bill will replace this Kafkaesque system with a single, fair and independent civilian review body.”
In 1993, New York City created its Civilian Complaint Review Board, a non-police investigative body tasked with oversight of the New York Police Department. Since its inception, the New York City CCRB has investigated thousands of complaints. No such body currently exists to handle complaints about police and peace officers employed by New York State.
Assembly Member Kellner said, “The New York City Civilian Complaint Review Board was controversial at first, but you can’t argue with the fact that relations between the NYPD and the community are the best they’ve ever been. This is no coincidence: when you have fair and consistent oversight, you get better policing and more public trust in officers. Everyone wins.”
The board will consist of nine members, three chosen by the Governor and six appointed upon the recommendations of, respectively, the Attorney General, the State Comptroller, the Temporary President and Minority Leader of the Senate, and the Speaker and Minority Leader of the Assembly. The legislation authorizes the board to hire an executive director and an investigative staff.
----------------------------
For the text of the bill, see "http://www.assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?sh=printbill&bn=A10618&term=2009".
----------------------------
Mr. Prozakis, your point is: police brutality complaints aren't valid unless there is confirming video?
Officer Prozakis: you complain of the "All I saw was a cracking voice and not a single tear", are you expecting a performance? She spoke naturally, she sometimes digressed, sometimes was non-linear in her statements, and even pronounced names wrong (including Guerra's). Of course, had she cried on cue, had polished statements, and spoken flawlessly, you would have said it was a performance.
And you still don't call for Public Safety's official report of the incident (as NYPD would have issued within 24 hours).
Let's face it Officer Prozakis, you're a law enforcement bigot. Since you don't live on Roosevelt Island or in NYC, can you explain you connection to Public Safety, Keith Guerra, or members of PSD? You're just a friend of Mr. Guerra, right?
Public Safety's bogus story: a boy who had pneumonia so severe his lungs were filled with fluid, yet he outruns PS officers 8 City blocks from 536 Main (back of 510) to back of 20 River Road. Thus, Public Safety claims they saved the boy's life by taking him to the hospital.
My point is, I want to hear from all sides. So far I heard from a lawyer and the mother.
I know who ccrb is, I did not think the city CCRB would expand to investigate outside agencies. Maybe a new type of CCRB would be made for outside agencies?. It says a new board would be modeled after CCRB.
Ok, so what happened to this idea?
Again, how is this allowed in the comments?
YetAnotherRIer: I don't understand your objection, please explain.
I use to live in a river road building and moved out about 2 years ago. I was contemplating on coming back. Lets not get silly ideas of I am connected or I am friends with the director. I saw the posting in the paper and it led me to this discussion board. So lets not play childish games.
I am not a law enforcement bigot for one. I am open minded to things like this and don't jump to conclusions as anything could have happened. I kept saying I want to see all the facts, what do you think I meant by that. I want to hear from all sides, what do you think I mean by that?
Case in point, the subway sodomy case with the nypd and mr.mureao. Everyone was looking to chop the heads off the officers, only to find out mr.mureau made the whole thing up. I save my final thoughts at the end of the investigation. It's only fair. I have seen plenty of frivolous lawsuits, so it's only natural for me to be a skeptic.
Officer Prozakis: Then why are you reluctant to demand RIOC/PSD release their side of the story?
But you are a law enforcement bigot because your positions are only pro-law-enforcement.
And, based upon your comments, you have an abusive approach to things, such as: thinking a lack of swollen eye sockets means, there was no near-death experience.
You throw out diversions, let's still to this case: again, why can you only see this from a law enforcement perspective? You give no hypotheticals that put the defendant in a favorable light.
You are calling me a potentially abusive cop, which is wrong. As well as lousy. Again very wrong. I am here in a curious mindset because I use to be a resident. You have no right to call me names. It's ok, it's only your opinion and your super knowledge you gained on the Internet that makes you a superior and smart individual. Absolutely no life experience in the law enforcement field and you think you know the ins and outs of Miranda and what is allowed and not allowed during arrest situations. When you become a cop, let me know, expert.
8 city blocks? Now you are reaching, everyone knows its nowhere near 8 city blocks. I think it's time to get serious. That's about half a mile for north and south blocks.
I cannot put the defendant in a favorable light because nobody knows the exact circumstances. Nobody knows if he tripped, fell, actively resisted, was hurt accidentally. Nobody really knows except to speculate. I have learned in my profession that speculation gets nothing done. Why can you only see this from public safety is absolutely wrong perspective? You give no hypotheticals that put the officers in a favorable light, or at least in a reasonable light. Aside from saying they beat him over and over.
You throw out just as many diversions to favor yourself. Lets not kid ourselves here.
Well it's time for the community to make up their mind. Do the residents want a full fledged police force with new training and full accountability like nypd, or do the residents want a quasi police force to be the police only when they want them to be the police, but just passive the other 90% of the time?.
You cannot have a full fledged police force with no available resources to the department either. It's time for the community to know what they want. I personally think a full time active police force dedicated to the island will get much more oversight from nys, I believe.
Officer Prozakis: I agree, we have $1.7 million (annually) to spend on NYPD officers, and I believe that would get us 17-21 officers spread 24/7, which would match the present 4-5 patrolling PSD officers (according to Guerra's statements on patrol levels). We'd have all the training and accountability of NYPD.
Officer Prozakis: You're a lousy and potentially abusive based on YOUR statements, not the internet. You believe: no swollen eye sockets ==> not near-death. It is those kinds of comments that indicate you have a wrong sense of reality, and self control. You have bogus and fabricated distinctions about criminal vs. civil attorneys when it comes to accessing their clients, as per Miranda Rights. Aside from me, you had Mr. Lyon (a practicing attorney) tell you otherwise. So if you're wrong on understanding the law, then you've been poorly trained -- definitely a bad cop.
Truly, I wouldn't want to be like you.
Officer Prozakis: I guess you're not telling us the truth about you're living on Roosevelt Island because, truly, residents know which Manhattan street they are across from. And you didn't propose a different number, which means (to me) that you really don't know the place.
If you look at Google Maps, you'll see that 536 Main is between 66-67 Streets, and the back of 20 River Road is between 73-74 Streets (7 City blocks in North-South direction), and it is 1 City block East-West (measured as streets, not avenues) from 536 entrance to back of 20 River Road. Thus, about 8 blocks.
And you don't even know that it is about 20 City blocks per mile, i.e., 4/10 of mile, not a half mile. Sounds like you don't know much about NYC.
I'm starting to think you have no relationship to this neighborhood (or City) because you don't know Roosevelt Island stuff that Islanders know, and you don't know City stuff (that New Yorkers know).
I was playing devils advocate and you know this. Stop twisting things around. You sound like a professional propaganda machine. What's your issue? Move on from this. Whe. You have no leg to stand on you move to quoting internet chat in out of context ways. Stop going off target. It's called semantics and being a devils advocate.
City street and city blocks are two different things. 8 city blocks are typical construed of long lengths. Streets are normally the short from street to street. You can believe what you want. You can play whatever scenarios you want. 8 city streets is one thing, 8 city blocks is another. Sorry I was not a Roosevelt island lifer or in the mix. I knew where the train was and I knew where the building was. I don't count how many foot steps are from one building to another.
You really believe you know absolutely everything there is to know about it all dont you. Is unbelievable and impossible to hold a conversation with a person like you. I don't know a thing about your or what your deal is but you are unreasonable and a very gung ho Internet cowboy. Unreal.
I apologize I did not go to town hall meetings and know every aspect of the neighborhood. Sorry I was never inducted into being a full islander. I am starting to think it might be better off not to come back. It was only 2 years of my life. Get a grip guy. It obvious you hate cops. Ok I get it. The most unreasonable person I have ever encountered.
You have no idea what you are talking about. An off duty police officer is not going to out of their way to write tickets or make arrests. Standing in TD BANK as a static foot post and not answering a radio call is an ideal off duty gig. Your have envisioned a fantasy which will never happen. For one, off duty officers can only work roughly 6 hours per day with a 3 hour window between their regular shift and off duty work. Same applies for days off. You will not find off duty officers, nor is it allowed to have an off duty officer for 8 hours. No off off duty officer would want to work off duty in an enforcement setting. Of have this mindset that all nypd officers are active gung ho police officers. In fact 20% do 80% of the work. Good luck convincing off duty officer to work off duty for $30-$35 an hour, which I believe the rate is, to chase a radio with jobs, make arrests and issue summonses to motorists, and people alike.
George. This is uncalled for. The entire community is clamoring for something to be done in light of what happened to Mr Jones. You seem to be intent on "minimizing" the incident. It wasn't minimal, and we won't let ourselves be lulled into complacency again. Any kind of CCRB for the RIPSD would be a great improvement - even if it isn't a "perfect" CCRB. Why argue about it? The RIPSD has taken advantage of its position as one of the only PDs with no oversight to go completely out of control, because they have no CCR Board looking over their shoulder. It is reasonable for us on RI to want the RIPSD subject to some kind of CCRB. The Jones beating was the last straw. We've had enough. The RIPSD has become an arrogant, lawless, PSD. And there is evidence to that effect - going back some years. Don't defend an organization that has become thoroughly corrupted.
George, it sure sounds like he wasn't being taken care of at the hospital for a few days. Not being bathed, only being diagnosed with the punctured lung days after admission, having the blood removed from the punctured lung subsequently. It is highly unlikely the hospital suddenly decided to withhold care from the patient. It's more likely they were directed to do so by Guerra. I'm not making this up - read the account and listen to the press conference.
Officer Prozakis: You're right it's about semantics (i.e., "meaning"), but you know nothing about semantics. I'm just quoting your statements and showing what they mean/imply. You don't know anything about Devil's Advocacy either, you seem to believe that a Devil's Advocate is about making any point, no matter how ill-founded, and not being responsible for your position ten minutes later.
As for the internet, I cite the internet to show supporting facts, e.g., such as NYS Penal Law, or maybe a Constitutional Law course. You're nicely consistent in that you offer no actual rebuttal of points, just "it's on the internet", as if citing an internet accessible copy of NYS Penal Law somehow makes it less of a law.
And you complain about "quoting internet chat in out of context ways", could you explain what was out of context? In the messages I am quoting, your full text (within context) is just above, so I don't see how that is out of context.
But more importantly, the community is being informed by reading this. I am willing to continue this debate and hold you to your points. This weekend, I've had a good number of people tell me they understood things better about this incident and RIOC/PSD's policies.
I don't think you're a very smart person though, because if you were truly an active policeman, you'd know the strategy I've been using against you for several days. Fortunately, many law enforcement people, including Director Guerra, fall for this because they feel invincible.
Officer Prozakis, I'm not sure you're even a police officer. For someone so concerned about verification, we have nothing verifiable about you. You've posed as resident, but don't know Roosevelt Island, and don't know New York. You're an anonymous person with an alias, who has contributed to blog discussion on KXAN Austin reports. Is Texas your home?
Strategy used against me? Discrediting that I am an active nypd police officer? Ok. If you wish. I am alarmed and want to hear facts from all sides, you made up your mind.
Officer Prozakis: You ain't no NYPD officer, you don't even know how New Yorkers talk. I've never heard an NYPD officer so unfamiliar with the City, you're just a poser.
Oh I agree with full steam ahead. What's wrong is wrong, if found to be wrong. I don't believe anyone doing wrong should slide free. My only problem is I have yet to hear facts. It's a very intriguing case and caught some media attention.
If that's what you believe so then you can believe it. I collect my check from the city of New York every two weeks. I know what I and find no need to prove myself to you. You are an absolute stranger and you are a very rude person. I ain't no nypd officer. Yeah, nice.
This is getting old. You are more annoying than a member of housewives of New Jersey. You don't have to be sure. I know I am a nyc police officer, I have no need to prove to you. True, my time on the island was short, only a couple of years. I did not know I had to be a island expert. I am we'll attuned to nyc. I am sorry I misunderstood you saying 8 city blocks as opposed to 8 city streets. Big difference. I guess that made me a non New Yorker?.
Officer Prozakis: Those multiple little slip-ups give you away. You have used the internet to fake your RI persona. You say things like "Sorry I was not a Roosevelt island lifer or in the mix. I knew where the
train was and I knew where the building was. I don't count how many
foot steps are from one building to another.", yet people who actually lived here don't describe their experience that way. Right, you're such and observant police officer but, after living here for several years, you never knew how many blocks to your building where you purportedly lived.
Seriously guy, I did not care what street in manhattan was directly across from where I lived. Why was that such an importance. I found no need to know that. Why would I need to know which exact street is across from me! You are a rediculous person. Several years, no. About 2 short years.
You are making yourself sound foolish. You believe you are a master investigator but you are completely opposite of it as you have been wrong in every aspect.
I was drawn to this story as it is very interesting. As a former resident I never would imagine a thing like this to happen on the island. Why is that so hard to understand.
Do you stomp your feet when you get upset as well? You are a very childish individual. I wish to hold no further discussions with you and your imaginary detective alter ego. You need to grow up. Truly outrageous.
"... residents know which Manhattan street they are across from ..."
I promised myself never to reply to any of your comments anymore but I could not help it. I have been living on this island for many, many years and I still haven't cared enough to figure out from what Manhattan street I am living across. This just shows your argument style. Lots of conjecture. Lots of everybody has to think and believe the things Frank thinks in believes in. And a whole lot of web searches that are supposed to trump real life experience.
He wasn't charged with anything, he is not a defendant.
There is no need or reason to argue with Frank. He is not taken seriously by most of us here on this blog nor in real life.
"yet people who actually lived here don't describe their experience that way."
Life according to Frank Farance. There is only onle way to be a resident: the Frank or his friends' way.
Well said Anthony. However, I need to make one correction. The agency in which Public Safety is a Department, RIOC, does NOT expect you to act like Police Officers. It is the current Director that does. That is the disconnect here.
YetAnotherRIer: You're a hypocrite and have nothing informative to add. With no citation references (to help the other readers) and real life experience is presented, it's considered conjecture/ incomplete. When it's with citations, the complaint is that web searches make it less valid.
But YetAnotherRIer, you're a hypocrite because your responses/rebuttals to comments are just URLs themselves (a result of web searches), such as your comment about a week ago on the topic "Person Of Interest Film Crew Transform Roosevelt Island Into Berlin - It's Easy With A Little Bit Of German Signage last week".
So according to you, it's OK to just post URLs (when my comments were from actual real life experience being in Berlin and speaking to people there), yet here you diminish it with "And a whole lot of web searches that are supposed to trump real life experience".
It seems your comments on the blog are complaints about others complaining. And, in general, what I comment upon, you must be against it ... not for you to provide clarity or better information yourself, but to nebulize.
YetAnotherRIer, more of your hypocrisy: you ask for the person to sue and go to the media, but now you seem unhappy with this. A couple months ago in comments about the Stueber Incident ("http://rooseveltislander.blogspot.com/2012/10/roosevelt-island-public-safety-blotter.html#comment-686115382"), in response to my concern:
"[FF:] ... as we know from residents who complain, these kinds of problems occur
more often than just this one complaint. Maybe you missed it: RIOC/PSD
had many opportunities to get this right, but they kept getting it wrong -- that should alarm many of us ..."
you said:
"[YetAnotherRIer:] If they are so wrong why don't you go to the media? Why doesn't the
victim sue or go to the media? Why is it only you [Frank] we hear from?"
So now you have multiple victims, several lawsuits, and media attention. But you now seem unhappy about that.
This is why I was drawn to this story. Was he or was he not. Were the charges dropped by the district attorneys office?.
I am criticizing the way you carry yourself, Frank. Don't always read too much into everything.
Mike, that's a very interesting point. Can you elaborate how Public Safety should act other than as a Police Department?
DA declined to prosecute.
This trail of conversations is missing the fact that numerous people are coming forth with similar stories, some of intimidation and some of verbal abuse, and yes, some with brutality and excessive use of force. This is not just about Anthony Jones -whose hospital records I've seen (and it is NO pneumonia)! Whether he ran or not... that is not the issue.
Let's not just get stuck on the details, but look at the general pattern, the stories as told by the victims.
Mr. Farance (and I say that with respect because I think you are a smart man). You have gone out of your way to smear the PSD at every stroke after having written so much about wanting Officers to patrol the buildings. The Commander of the 114 said, in the video on this blog, that crime is down here, largely because of the island's PSD. Why is that not important to you? Help me understand.
You have gone out of your way to google lots of info, and give your strong opinion which has led many of our neighbors to, not only take your side, but come forward to outwardly criticize these men and woman who work trying to protect and serve our community. Yet, you have not put in the same effort to investigate who you are fighting for. Do you really know this person? Have you even tried to find out? Help me understand.
How will you feel knowing that the man you are defending is a BGM gang member in our community? The same gang that has instilled fear in several of my neighbors. (Do you know what BGM is?) My guess is that you don't and won't even care about that because you seem to be on a mission to have the PSD disbanded and all of its leaders removed - based on a story of alleged brutality. Help me understand.
I ask you (playing Devil's advocate, and with respect - so please don't berate me as you have others), what if the facts come out, whenever they do, and they indicate that there was no brutality? And, I ask you again, how will you feel knowing you supported, and got many others in our community, to support the BGM gang of R.I.? Because, believe me, sons of others (in a video on this blog) are also in that gang. Oh, and please don't ask me how I know this. Just because you don't live in Eastwood, doesn't mean that you are that far away. So, please, Mr. Farance, I ask you to please help me understand.
Thank you! I agree, with the exception that Frank is a smart man. His singular focus on issues is not a smart approach and everybody can use the Internet for research.
Eastwood Rez: You don't have the facts right, I saw the medical records. Hypothetically, if he were a gang member, that rationalizes a deadly experience even if he is doing nothing wrong? Even if he had done something wrong, it still doesn't rationalize brutal treatment. That's not the way this country works. Your attitude sounds like some of the officers: if they think you're bad, regardless of your legal actions, you deserve brutality. Public Safety has been problematic for lots of people and, thankfully, they are writing about it on the Facebook page.
YetAnotherRIer, you're nice and lazy, you don't spend time getting your hands dirty talking with people, listening to people, lots of followup, and doing much research. And you make fun of people doing research, it's not that your pointing out factual errors, you simply envious that others make the effort.
George, you don't have to have "super knowledge" to know it's wrong for PSD to beat a detainee to the extent that they end up in the hospital for several days with a punctured lung and additional injuries! And it's wrong for Guerra to enable a policing culture that allows such a beating! And we know Guerra/PSD allows it because the officers that did it are still patrolling RI - as if nothing happened! They haven't even been transferred to desk duty or suspended.
George - so you admit you're on this thread to play "devil's advocate" - i.e. to bait/provoke for no other purpose than to waste people's time, distract participants, and bore readers. This way, I suppose you think the impact of the beating will be "watered down" and eventually - forgotten. To that I tell you: No way, George! We wont forget, and we'll never forget! As long as Guerra/PSD remain ensconced on RI, bullying, beating, nearly killing, RI will never forget!
I agree - he's either a poser or a troll. As far as the way he talks, some who learn English as their second language become overly "correct" and possibly not completely idiomatic. Either way, George is most likely on this thread to distract/bait - in hopes that readers forget about the murderous Jones beating, which they most certainly will not.
Anybody who's read about this story, whether they've lived here or not, would be repulsed and horrified by what PSD did to that young man. Most likely George has been assigned the task to "defuse" the anti-PSD "talk" on the blog.. most likely George is either in PSD or RIOC.
No, the focus on PSD is smart if PSD actions warrant the focus. Frank, and the rest of the horrified residents of RI, would only be too glad to drop the focus on the PSD issue, which is indeed an ongoing community "burden" - meaning, yes, we do wonder on a daily basis what will PSD do next to another inoffensive, unresisting resident. The focus on PSD will only drop if and when PSD adopts humane policing tactics that do not include beating detainees such that they require days of inpatient hospital care afterwards.
You really don't think people in Southtown know they live directly across from the East 60s? The 59th St Bridge is right there as a landmark for heaven's sake. If you never figured out what street you live across from, that's your problem. Most people who come to live here, they are immediately curious as to what street they live across from in Manhattan, and in short order, figure it out - even before the days of google or the internet. It's easy to figure out since the hospitals have big signs on their facades facing the river, so all you need to do is look across the river, figure out the cross streets those hospitals are on, then you know what street in Manhattan your building is across from. Sheesh.
Yet he usually wins the "tennis matches" on this blog, doesn't he? And as far as the issue of the Jones beating is concerned - we're blessed to have him advocating for the rights of that young man, and all the other victims of police brutality on RI that are coming forward. The PSD reign of terror on RI must end - Albany must lend an ear to residents' complaints and investigate PSD brutal tactics forthwith.
It's in the process of being considered by the Legislature in Albany.
CheshireKitty, either you live in a bubble to think that PSD is just running around the island beating people up. Or, you believe everything you hear and read. Or, you are Frank Farance in disguise. Get a grip.
The young man's medical records outlining his dire injuries will tell the full story, if you don't believe me, Frank, or the young man. I don't want to have to look over my shoulder every time I walk down the street on RI, wondering who PS is going to come down on next. I don't want that fear on this island anymore. If it takes the Federal gov to conduct an investigation into what is going on with PS because the State gov won't do it, then so be it: Could US Atty Gen Holder please send an investigator to RI to look at the heinous acts done to Mr. Jones, and brutality to others as well since Guerra has been Chief of PS?
I am just curious but how many of those concerned have been previously arrested?. In my experience the ones with the biggest mouths and claim abuse and whatever else are the ones who have been arrested, have criminal records and simply are screaming to get away with anything short of murder in the future. Just my experience at community council meetings. Not saying this is taking place here, just lending a gesture.
That's sick. What are you trying to imply - blaming the victim? This is what they always used to do with female rape victims: Oh, wasn't she "asking for it" by wearing a "tight dress" and so forth. Let's stick to the facts please George. Abuse is abuse - if the young man was beaten nearly to death, that represents an extreme case of police misconduct. And on top of that, he wasn't charged with anything. How many more different ways can we say it? PSD beating Anthony Jones so that he required days of in-patient medical care was criminal, and must result in a shake-up of PSD. It's unacceptable for PSD to continue such terror tactics under Chief Guerra. Why don't they at least have a NYPD officer come in to take over Guerra's job so that he can read the riot act to the PSD officers, lay down the law as to what is and what is not acceptable. PSD should not and must not continue to run amok in its brutal harassment and beatings of community members.
Absolutely not blaming the man, it is just in my professional experiences the people in the "community" who have the biggest voices at the meetings are the ones who have had negative interactions. Perhaps I did not explain properly. I don't know the alleged "victim" or his history, nor do I know anyone there.
What difference does it make if they have or they haven't? If you're beaten by the PSD, your rights are infringed upon and on top of that no charges are filed, it's inexcusable, plain and simple! Look at me: I'm pro-police and in fact, I moved to RI because I saw it as less "chaotic" than the boroughs. That doesn't mean I'm not going to stand up and complain about this and other instances of police brutality on RI. What's fair is fair, and what happened to Anthony Jones should never happen to any of us, ever again.
roosevelt: I thought your bosses at RIOC/PSD didn't want you to comment, right?
Officer Prozakis: What's the point of presenting your bigoted comments if you're not going to defend them? You state "In my professional experience, the people in [blah blah blah] are [so and so]", i.e., they must have done something wrong.
How about a different perspective: sometimes people protest for moral reasons, to stand up for your neighbors (when that can't stand up for themselves), and to protect our civil and constitutional rights. For some of us, those ideals (learned in grade school and college) *stuck* and they are values worth fighting for.
I get a different feeling. Just my opinion I have from reading the same 3 or 4 people constantly spouting negativity rather than to try to fix things.
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