Monday, November 5, 2012

Roosevelt Island Hurricane Sandy Aftermath, Octagon Management Explains Why Fuel Cell Did Not Prevent Power Outage To Building - Should Portions Of Roosevelt Island Be Categorized As NYC Evacuation Zone A Rather Than Current B?

Image Of Powerless Octagon Building During Hurricane Sandy From Olivia Rios

As previously reported, Hurricane Sandy knocked out power at Roosevelt Island's Octagon Building on Monday October 29. Here's a time lapse video showing when the Octagon lights went out at approximately 8 PM.

You Tube Video of Roosevelt Island Hurricane Sandy Time Lapse

Electricity power was restored to the Octagon on Saturday November 3.

Last night, Octagon Building management sent the following message to residents explaining the power outage chronology and why the Octagon state-of-the-art Fuel Cell 

was not able to maintain electricity for the entire building. According to Octagon building management:
Thank you all for your patience during the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy. This letter is meant to describe the chronology of the power outage specific to the Octagon and the fuel cell’s emergency operation.

First let me describe the normal operation of the fuel cell. The fuel cell supplies the building with 400 KW of electricity and heat around the clock. During peak times this is about enough to supply half of the building with the shortfall picked up by the solar panels and the Con Edison grid. During off-peak times, the fuel cell can supply most of the building without supplemental grid power. The building is at all times connected to the grid for supplemental power so that during normal operations there is never a power shortfall. At times the fuel cell does go out of service, like any piece of mechanical equipment, and requires maintenance. It is estimated that the fuel cell is up and running 98% of the year. When the fuel cell is out of service, the Con Edison grid picks up the full building load.

In the event of a Con Edison grid outage, the fuel cell switches to grid independent mode. This means it is still operational when the grid is down for specific life safety loads as is the emergency diesel generator, but it cannot pick up the entire building load.

During Hurricane Sandy, the Con Edison power went out at the Octagon on Monday night due to its connection to Coler Hospital’s electrical network, which was flooded. The fuel cell switched to grid-independent mode and the emergency generator came on to pick up life-safety loads.

Knowing the fuel cell had the capacity to carry more of the building’s loads, the Octagon management team arranged for the project engineer, fuel cell manufacturer, and electrician to transfer specific loads over to the fuel cell so that the building could have hot and cold water. This work was completed on Wednesday.

On Wednesday evening, Con Edison arrived to assess the power outage at Coler Hospital. It was determined that the flooding at Coler caused the power outage.Con Edison disconnected the Octagon from the Coler network so that the power at the Octagon could be restored independent of the Hospital. Thursday morning, Con Edison informed the Octagon management that an independent electrical testing agency would have to test all of the building’s switchgear, transformers, and vaults for damage prior to re-energizing. The Octagon management was able to have an agency conduct these tests Thursday afternoon with a certificate in Con Edison’s hands Thursday evening.

On Friday, the Octagon Management worked with Con Edison all day to schedule a crew to turn the power back on at the building. Further, we had our electrician onsite to ensure no problems on the building’s end once power was restored. On Friday Con Edison determined that they were sending power to the Octagon’s transformers but the building was not receiving the power, meaning there was a problem with the Con Edison transformers that would require a specific crew with our electrician’s assistance to remediate the damage.

Unfortunately, Con Edison was not able to get to the building until Saturday morning to make the repairs and restore power. Our electricians came back Saturday morning and assisted in the repair and restoration of power early Saturday afternoon. It was ultimately determined that Con Edison had faulty components in their network protectors that had to be replaced to restore the power.

We understand this was a very difficult week for all of the Octagon residents and appreciate your patience with our management team as we made every effort to make living at the building more bearable during the outage.
Here's what the East River looked like by the Octagon on October 29 just before Hurricane Sandy arrived.

One lesson learned from the Hurricane Sandy experience is that perhaps all of Roosevelt Island should not be in the Category B evacuation zone but that portions of Roosevelt island, including the area around the Octagon and Coler Hospital should be Category A.

 Roosevelt Island Lighthouse Park Under Water From Hurricane Sandy Via Kate Williams Tweet

More scenes from Roosevelt Island under water here and here.


YetAnotherRIer said...

"Knowing the fuel cell had the capacity to carry more of the building’s loads, the Octagon management team arranged for the project engineer, fuel cell manufacturer, and electrician to transfer specific loads over to the fuel cell so that the building could have hot and cold water."

Wait, so tenants at the Octagon did have hot water during the power outage? That makes it even more confusing why a picture was drawn that the people living there are living in distress.

Elizabeth Erickson said...

No, we did not. Hot water was restored on Thursday am and many of the upper floors did not have any water pressure, meaning, no water at all for them.

KidKilowatt said...

Damn, so close! Don't worry, you'll nail them yet.

rilander said...

Going forward, the Octagon should be completely disconnected from Coler!

YetAnotherRIer said...

So, hot water was restored a couple days before the Octagon got back on the grid? But the water pumps were not working even though the report says that hot and cold water was restored?

Anonymous said...

Why do you care so much? This didn't impact you at all.

Pernilla Romoeren said...

Before thinking about changing the OEM map, you should know the criteria used to create that map (I.e. height and speed of water, flooding directions...). The zone A evacuation was stated basically because there was a concrete risk for human lives. I don't think that the Octagon and the Coler Hospital were in that condition, but I think they should (and could) have been better protected by flooding. I don't know if they have an emergency plan, but if they have, it should be improved: the directions of flooding were easily predictable simply consulting a topographic map, and the water could have been distracted from the basement, as the water pressure and height were not strong.

Pernilla Romoeren said...

Do you think is not a stress spending five days without power and heating?

CheshireKitty said...

Elizabeth - It's best to ignore YetAnother, who for some reason has it in for Octagon, and has taken on the vindictive qualities of a troll. I suspect that in YetAnother's mind, schadenfreude is the main motivator in his current quest to prove that things weren't all that bad at Octagon last week. Best to ignore him. I've never been through a power outage during cold weather (i.e. anytime not in the middle of summer, when most power outages occur) and any power outage is stressful. It must have been quite bad for Octagon residents last week.

Denise Shull said...

Why do I think "YetAnother" is FF's "alter ego". Thanks for your reasonable attitude. It really is the worst thing about living here - the resentment of anything Octagon.

Frank Farance said...

Ms. Shull, you rarely disappoint. I know it is the True You, and you can't help being truly you. And I am unable to pretend to be you, my brain just starts thinking and -snap- I'm out of the Denise Zone. So keep those knee-slappin' funny posts coming right along. You can continue to be you, I will continue to marvel at all the things you say I won't be disappointed by you being you, and I will continue to not be you..

Besides, I think you're confusing me with YetAnotherRIer above. But you are still you.

riradu said...

The rationale behind disconnecting the fuel cell may reside in the much higher cost of heat and electricity produced by the installation. Here is another tax dollar subsidized "green" investment gone bad. I guess the extra costs are included in rent, but the difference between the "green" energy and the regular Con Ed energy cost means that the "green" goes some other way.

YetAnotherRIer said...

Well, CK, unlike you I have been through things like this before in my past. I think I know a bit about distress. And I am sorry that it ticks you off that I downplay the situation at the Octagon a bit considering that there are places in NYC that desperately need help.

Frank Farance said...

If Octagon is designated Zone A, then:

- police will be knocking on every door when the Mayor says "Mandatory Evacuation of Zone A" areas, the police will insist that you vacate the building immediately
- tenants' insurance might go up significantly, or not be available at all
- cars in the basement (of, now, a Zone A flood area) might have insurance issues, too
- the bank might call in the $100(?) million re-mortgage because the building has been significantly devalued or, more likely, the bank would re-coup its higher risk with higher interest rates, which are passed on as higher rents
- the possibility of using PS/IS 217 for emergency purpose is reduced: why should anyone use PS/IS 217 when it is so close to a Zone A area (with its own EXTRA evacuation traffic over the single road Main Street)

Not to mention, the building's owner might oppose such a designation because it devalues his property.

Maybe one of you (Mr. Escobar, Ms. Erickson, Ms. Shull, Mr. Long) can explain the advantage of being designated Zone A?

Robert said...

Actually, based on the number of fatalities that occurred in zone A, I don't think the police will be that insistent on an immediate evacuation.

Frank Farance said...

Robert, I don't believe the fatality count has anything to do with the Mayor's instructions. I carefully read the Mayor's instructions in Sandy: they didn't say You're Not Required To Evacuate If You've Had Less Than N Fatalities. They were Mandatory evacuations, not Conditional evacuations.

But think about it, giving different instructions based upon some past history of fatalities is not a good predictor of future fatalities ... as soon as you start making decisions on mandatory or not, then you have to have criteria that stands up to post-event analysis.

Or said differently, if you soften the criteria for evacuation and then someone dies, you need to have a good reason why you allowed the person to stay. Saying, "well no one died here before" is not a good explanation for death.

As for the timing of the evacuation, the Mayor's office was pretty consistent about completing the evacuation by Sunday while buses and mass transit was possible, they weren't waiting until Monday to complete the evacuation. So when they come for their final sweep, you've already had a good 24 hours to prepare to leave.

Robert said...

I think you misunderstood my point. The evacuation was ordered to be completed by Sunday evening. After that time, it was a misdemeanor to be in Zone A. If the police vigorously went door to door and insisted that everyone leave, then zone A would have been deserted of civilians by Monday night. However, if you read the news articles on those who died, and cross-reference to the evacuation maps, it is clear that the majority of NYC deaths due to Hurricane Sandy were civilians in area A who lost their lives due to floodwaters. In other words, people who did not evacuate. Therefore, I would conclude that the police did not insist people leave zone A despite the evacuation being mandatory in principle.

Based on this observation, unless there is evidence to the contrary (e.g. elected officials saying next time they would ask the police to be more forceful so as to avoid future deaths) I would conclude that the next time there is a hurricane evacuation, the police will not insist that everyone leave the evacuation zone despite it being mandatory.

Frank Farance said...

Robert, I am not completely understanding your point, so let me read it back.

(1) We (you and I) are in agreement that if there is a mandatory evacuation of zone A, then everyone must leave. We also know it is mandatory because, as you've pointed out, it is a criminal offense to be in Zone A.

(2) According to you, most of the deaths due to floodwaters are in Zone A. So that would further emphasize the idea that there is going to be pressure to leave Zone A.

(3) When I said the police are going to go door-to-door and "insist" that you leave Now (by the evacuation deadline), how much they enforce their orders is a judgement call.

So having an infant in sub 40 temps with a higher threat of flooding, loss of power, etc. (now because the area is labeled Zone A rather than Zone B) might get a quick call to ACS, because the child's welfare is endangered, and the police will enforce their orders. I've seen the police pick up parent and child when they thought the child was endangered, there isn't much one can do at that point to stop them. And that's what Octagon residents might face if it is relabeled Zone A.

Anyway, I mention these points because, so far, no one has come forward to defend the idea that parts of Roosevelt Island should be Zone A.

Rick, could you have the source of your post explain why portions of Roosevelt Island be labeled Zone A?

RooseveltIslander said...

I have heard several Octagon residents questioning, not advocating, if sections of Roosevelt Island should be categorized as Zone A after the flooding caused by Hurricane Sandy at Octagon and Coler Hospital.

You and others have made several good points explaining why changing to Zone A may not be a good idea.

CheshireKitty said...

They can't insist. This is what Wikipedia says about enforcing evacuation orders: In the United States a person cannot be forced to evacuate under most conditions. To facilitate voluntary compliance with mandatory evacuation orders first responders and disaster management officials have used creative techniques such as asking people for the names and contact of their next of kin, writing their Social Security Numbers on their limbs and torso so that their remains can be identified,[4] and refusing to provide government services in the affected area, including emergency services.

Frank Farance said...

CheshireKitty, not true. You and Wikipedia have it wrong, including that article having multiple quality issues. Here's an article from the American Bar Association ("").

"... Every state provides specific statutory authority to its Governor to take emergency actions during an attack or disaster. Additionally, most states have adopted statutes specifically authorizing the use of police powers like evacuation during an emergency or disaster. For example, the authority of a fire chief to order the evacuation of a building on fire, or in reasonable proximity to one on fire, is practically universal. ..."

Whether they choose to enforce it is a judgement call.

My point about children, though, was a bit stronger. ACS can take away children if they are endangered, evacuation orders or not. In the case of the infant in sub 40 temps with no power, running water, and in a (newly designated) Zone A Mandatory Evacuation has lots of obvious objective indicators that the child shouldn't be there. When the child is taken away by ACS/police and the parent later appears in court, the judge will be asking the parent why they weren't listening to public health officials or law enforcement to leave ... which can translate into the court's concern about bad decision-making on the parent's part, i.e., a losing argument for the parent.

Getting back to Octagon-specific questions, that is why I was asking: for that parent (as reported by Ms. Shull) who had the infant in dire conditions, with a newly designated Zone A: Do you really want to risk the confrontation with the police and have your child taken away by ACS because you don't want to obey the Zone A Mandatory Evacuation orders? By relabeling Octagon as Zone A, those confrontations are more likely to happen. (Whether Zone A is an appropriate label or not is a separate issue, it's been discussed elsewhere in this thread.)

Elizabeth Erickson said...

Frank, you are mixing terms. Child endangerment is a criminal reference. ACS and/or the police and, probably even Public Safety to the extent they are "peace officers" may only remove children from their parents when there is imminent risk to the child's life or health. Previously and attorney with ACS having been that person in court with parents and children when children were removed, I will tell you that staying in the Octagon during its blackout, as I did with my child, would never be sufficient to warrant removal. Nor is simply "bad-decision making on the parent's part". Stop bringing the threat of ACS into this, it makes you look like a fool.

Elizabeth Erickson said...

And also from your ABA article (your should have kept reading rather than just cherry picked the part that you thought supported your argument)

"Enforcing a Mandatory Evacuation
common law, the normal penalties and consequences of disobeying a
lawful order come into play for disobeying an evacuation order. In
states like Maryland and California, these have been codified as
criminal offenses9. So, a person who fails to evacuate is
committing a crime and subject to arrest—meaning the police can seize
their person and take them elsewhere, that is, evacuate them. This
argument has been raised and implicitly accepted by the Louisiana courts
in several of the lawsuits filed in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina,
wherein several authorities have been sued for false arrest, wrongful
imprisonment and civil rights violations in the course of enforcing the
various mandatory evacuation orders10.

2009, Texas passed legislation which explicitly allows authorities to
"compel persons who remain in the evacuated area to leave and authorize
the use of reasonable force to remove persons from the area11."
However, this power to compel evacuation is not automatically exercised
when an order to evacuate is issued, but must be exercised
independently through a separate, concurrent order12."


CheshireKitty said...

Frank, this is idiotic. There are currently thousands of families in the Rockaways, in Red Hook, and other devastated areas - especially in public housing projects - who are indeed living there with no heat, electricity or hot water with their kids. This crisis is daily being reported on by the news. If it were a crime to continue to live with kids in cold, apartments with no running water, where you see everyone has their coats and hats on and has to tote buckets of water from leaking fire hydrants up darkened stairways to freezing apartments, then why aren't all these parents being arrested and their kids being put into foster care? Also - I respect what Elizabeth has written about the laws being different in a few other States, but I have never heard of a person in any State being arrested and forcibly removed from the path of a hurricane in order to force compliance with mandatory evacuation orders. Everyone knows people often prefer to stay in their homes, and tragically sometimes they pay with their lives for staying. I'm certain it's usually adults who stay and the adults will make an effort to send the kids to a safer location - but you never know, sometimes they may keep kids with them if they are skeptical of the strength of an oncoming storm. The police go door to door urging people to leave, as they did with Sandy, and municipalities provide transportation to shelters, but I've never heard of cops forcing compliance with mandatory evacuation orders. If a resident does not wish to vacate or be personally told to vacate by the police, the simplest thing to do is simply not come to the door - which is exactly what thousands did in NYC when the police knocked. The police do not know if someone is behind the door or not. It is then the possibly fateful choice of the resident to endure the hardship of the storm. I think Bloomberg was very clear and forceful about evacuating just before the hurricane - even saying that he really didn't want to risk the lives of first responders to help those who did not evacuate when they were told to do so. The issue was that many did not evacuate - this was evident because the shelters were only slightly utilized (of course many residents went to relatives/friends' houses on higher ground). As I wrote above, I can't think of an instance, either with Katrina or Sandy, where cops arrested residents before these storms and put them in jail and kids in foster care because they would not comply with a mandatory evacuation order.

Frank Farance said...

Ms. Erickson, I doubt a competent and experienced attorney would give the advice you give: { Staying at home in a Zone A area when Mandatory Evacuation has been order with an infant in sub 40 temps with no power, heat, and running water when there is a City evacuation shelter a 40 minute bus ride would garner no risk of the parent's decision-making being questioned }. I doubt a competent and experienced forensic would agree with your position.

Frank Farance said...

Ms. Erickson, I didn't cherry pick, you just didn't read the text carefully. You seem to think that I was focusing on the first sentence ("In 2009, Texas passed legislation ..."), but I was not because: both the first sentence *AND* the second sentence (which you missed the footnote, and its cited words) ALSO applies only to Texas. Thus, the second sentence does NOT imply anything about New York.

And the main point still applies: if (say) a fire chief orders an evacuation of a building on fire, he/she can have you removed by force if you're staying in the building (you're in the way, you're in danger, etc.). The degree of criminality (misdemeanor, felony, etc.) is an independent issue.

As an attorney, I would have expected a better read from you.

Frank Farance said...

CheshireKitty, what's idiotic is: it's news to you (and you flaunt it) that lower elevations on the river flood sooner than higher elevations. In the 1960's we had a culture that respected scientific knowledge. Now, regardless of your elite high school and Ivy League education, you flaunt your scientific illiteracy. I'm not saying you have to have the knowledge (because you studied/ specialized in something far from science), I'm pointing out that you don't respect the knowledge itself, which is the same cultural lack of respect that allows Intelligent Design advocates and Climate Change deniers to gain traction. Ditto for Ms. Shull's irresponsible thinking about evacuation. It's as if you're auditioning for some Middle-Ages reality TV show where moronic thinking/ actions are valued higher than smarts/ responsibility ... no, no, no we can't allow ourselves to become smarter because, not only would that require effort, that would also lose the attraction and popularity of the show.

Here's an excerpt of the Witch scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, which is what these conversations feel like:

BEDEMIR: What makes you think she is a witch?
VILLAGER #3: Well, she turned me into a newt.
BEDEMIR: A newt?
VILLAGER #3: I got better.
VILLAGER #2: Burn her anyway!
CROWD: Burn! Burn her!
BEDEMIR: Quiet, quiet. Quiet! There are ways of telling whether she is a witch.
CROWD: Are there? What are they?
BEDEMIR: Tell me, what do you do with witches?
VILLAGER #2: Burn!
CROWD: Burn, burn them up!
BEDEMIR: And what do you burn apart from witches?
VILLAGER #1: More witches!
VILLAGER #2: Wood!
BEDEMIR: So, why do witches burn?
VILLAGER #3: B--... 'cause they're made of wood...?
CROWD: Oh yeah, yeah...
BEDEMIR: So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood?
VILLAGER #1: Build a bridge out of her.
BEDEMIR: Aah, but can you not also build bridges out of stone?
VILLAGER #2: Oh, yeah.
BEDEMIR: Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1: No, no.
VILLAGER #2: It floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1: Throw her into the pond!
CROWD: The pond!
BEDEMIR: What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1: Bread!
VILLAGER #2: Apples!
VILLAGER #3: Very small rocks!
VILLAGER #1: Cider!
VILLAGER #2: Great gravy!
VILLAGER #1: Cherries!
VILLAGER #3: Churches -- churches!
VILLAGER #2: Lead -- lead!
ARTHUR: A duck.
CROWD: Oooh.
BEDEMIR: Exactly! So, logically...,
VILLAGER #1: If... she.. weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood.
BEDEMIR: And therefore--?
VILLAGER #1: A witch!
CROWD: A witch!
BEDEMIR: We shall use my larger scales!


KidKilowatt said...

Frank, don't take this the wrong way, but you are the most unpleasant and depressing Internet presences I have ever witnessed. You likely also have an Internet addiction. God knows I waste too much time doing things like typing this sentence, but you are really in a dark, lonely place. It's not like you're making a useful contribution to society, either. You basically make one substantive post per thread and then dig back in for a the ongoing war with the other shut-ins about who misunderstood what in whoever's most recent inconsequential post. I guess that's another thing they didn't have in the 1960's. Please don't respond to this, or any other post on this thread. The world gets a little darker each time you write something online.

Anonymous said...

Fear not frank the sociopath will be a hero soon (in his own pathetic fetile mind).

CheshireKitty said...

C'mon Frank - you can do better than that. You can't reply to what I said, and so you resort to personal attacks, which you must "grok" don't faze me one bit. I know Zone A areas flood sooner than Zone B areas - but there is variability in flooding within each area - Gerritsen Beach flooded badly even though it is Zone B, and here on RI, a Zone B area, the northern side of Lighthouse Park was submerged but for some reason, 4 Freedoms Park, which practically dips into the river at the Room, remained unscathed. You offered an explanation that the masonry protected the latter park - but why didn't the flooding even get into the Room - which is only a couple of feet above sea level? Coler flooded badly, and the electricity went out for several days in Octagon, and for a few days in some areas of Eastwood, due to flooding. Otherwise, the other buildings here had no power interruption/flooding. The idea was that RIOC have a contingency plan in place such that a RI school gym could be turned into a shelter/warming center, if needed. Although you are a CERT team member and are supposed to help neighbors, your response is to mock efforts to help residents when they have no electricity, and to knock suggestions that RIOC have some kind of shelter/warming center plan that could be implemented so that if power is knocked out in one area but still available in other areas of the island, residents with no power do not have to trek into the middle of Queens or up to Hunter to obtain some warmth. (Needless to say, if the entire island is without power, then we would all have to decamp to areas of Queens/Manhattan Island with power for warmth.) I don't think RIOC having such a plan is so far-fetched - I think it would show RIOC cares. You have characterized residents' concern for their neighbors as stupidity - if that is the case, those of us that do care are lucky to be "stupid" since it proves we are human and care about our neighbors, and you, unfortunately, are not.

JimmyLaRoche said...

Don't worry his current assignment is PSD. He is probably sharing the proceeds from a stranger who was arrested by Psd. Suddenly he is buddy buddy.

No need to argue with him, this will be swept away, next issue is psd again.

Mr.Farance, can you please stop being a sociopath. Not only is it disturbing, it's annoying. Stop trying to be in the spotlight all the time. If you were on stage as a performer. people would throw tomatoes at you.

You get no respect by Wikipedia'ng your "knowledge", nor fighting everyone with your ideas. You never agree with anyone or go along with things. It's always your way or the highway, again.. Disturbing.

One day you will be a frail old man who will mean nothing. So why do you make a big stink of everything all the time?

Frank Farance said...

CheshireKitty, of course you still don't understand that lower elevations flood first, here is what you said:

"There were areas in Zone B that flooded extensively such as Marine Park in Brooklyn, yet on RI, only Coler was severely flooded, with the consequences of the infrastructure damage spreading to Octagon. You don't need to be a profound thinker or have deep insight to see that there is some capriciousness in the way flooding overspread some areas but not others, and that officials reacted accordingly".

That's right, it's all about *capriciousness* according to you, not science, e.g., hydrology, physics, etc.. If you take a look at the high water mark (which was about 9-10 PM), you'd see water was at the same elevation everywhere. I've seen photos of the Island around 9:30 PM, but none of the FDR room at that point (because the park was closed and the roads were flooded), so having no observations at that time, I don't think any of us can know definitively whether or not the room was flooded at 9:30 PM. Meanwhile, the after effects can be observed:

- FDR room: mostly granite (no erosion), new seawall, no power generators to flood, no connection to Octagon power, no patients to house, unknown whether FDR room was flooded

- Coler: basement flooded, power generator flooded, patients evacuated, some problem with electric power distribution (according to Octagon and Con Ed), Octagon power was affected

You attribute these differences to "capriciousness". You seem to have difficulty grokking (understanding) these kinds of distinctions. Just as you have difficulty in understanding that transferring patients between similarly purposed facilities, i.e., from hospital facility X to hospital facility Y, is a different kind of problem than transferring residents from Octagon to a school which needs to be re-purposed as a shelter. I'm guessing you have little experience in operations because those in a management capacity (for operations) would not be so dismissive of complexity and effort required to set up a NYC emergency evacuation shelter.

You say "You have characterized residents' concern for their neighbors as stupidity", but again that is your inability to tease apart an idea, just like YetAnotherRIer and I expressed our concerns about the over-dramatization of the plight of Octagon residents, which was not anything against the Hoo-Berdy delivery of food.

So here is what Ms. Shull said, which I would characterize as Irresponsibly Stupid:

"Frank, could you point out where these shelters were publicized BEFORE our building lost power? And could you also make it clear how after we lost power, with no TV nor Internet, how people were supposed to find out about them? Why
wasn't this on the front page of say the Friday WIRE?"

Ms. Shull doesn't understand that she might need to turn on the television, radio, or internet before the storm. Ms. Shull is oblivious to the RIOC posters that were sent to every building. Ms. Shull doesn't know that dialing 311 might get her some answers (at the time, the opening message on 311 pointed to hurricane evacuation areas).

And then Ms. Shull doesn't want to take any individual responsibility for herself or her neighbors, she wants someone else to do this: "Maybe you [Frank] could have walked up here and passed out flyers or something... that would have been helpful."

Irresponsible + Stupid = Irresponsibly Stupid.

However, you incorrectly conclude "if that is the case, those of us that do care are lucky to be "stupid" since it proves we are human and care about our neighbors". No, Ms. Shull's head-in-sand approach on this is a very bad idea, it's what gets more people killed/injured, and puts more people in danger. In essence, Ms. Shull speaks against Being Prepared, i.e., Ms. Shull does not show neighborly caring with that kind of thinking.

As said in the early days of USENET/ netnews: "Stupidity, like Virtue, is its own reward."

JimmyLaRoche said...

It wasn't in the wire because frank is brewing a rediculous novel. Stay tuned, frank is shooting to be a hero in his own eyes.

CheshireKitty said...

Frank has managed to bring unity to RI - against Frank!

CheshireKitty said...

Thanks Jimmy! The only image that comes to mind is of Frank as he envisions Sandy - a great big bathtub spigot, in Frank's case, spewing words, that somehow rise at a precisely even level just like water filling a bathtub would. In Frank's case, the water is of course a flood of bs. Now, can we all put this rediculous "conflict" behind us, again thank Sal and Judy, and simply agree that RIOC should at least look into providing someplace - call it a shelter, call it a warming center - in case we get flooding on one part of the island and not another? And you're right on PSD Jimmy - undoubtedly this is going to be the next (or the same old) "crusade" for Mr. F...

Frank Farance said...

But CheshireKitty, you had flooding on both ends of the Island, including south of Goldwater. Exactly where are you saying there was no flooding?

Ratso123 said...

It seems that most of the residential buildings along with Goldwater were not flooded nor did they loose electricity. Not being in Zone A doesn't mean you cannot incur weather damage or loose electricity. It seems to be based on how much danger the individuals are facing. O course there my be disadvantages to incurring damage and being in zone B when it comes to FEMA or other types of assistance.

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