Comment Thread On Response To Sunday's Incident.
Several readers have asked for a separate discussion thread to comment on Sunday's post.
I would like to ask the moderator of this blog to open a new discussion thread on PSD and RIOC performance during this sad event. To be frank, I don't feel comfortable discussing all these valid points on this thread, as some here are trying to mask RIOC and PSD ineeficiency behind the tragedyand
Moderator, could you please create another thread to discuss RIOC and PSD. I feel so bad that these two things, the tragedy and PSD/RIOC performance get mixed up here. Thank you!For any of you who wish to comment on the response to this incident by the Roosevelt Island Operating Corp (RIOC) please use this comment thread. This is a very sensitive subject so please be responsible in your comments or I will delete them.
The tone of some recent comments have been unusually harsh and insulting. Such comments only weaken the argument or point they are trying to make. Please be courteous to other readers no matter how much you disagree and if possible, don't use the anonymous handle but use some sort of consistent identification to your comments - it doesn't have to be your full or even real name. Use your initials, first name, a consistent pseudonym or better still, register through Open ID.
On to substance. I don't know if RIOC's response to Sunday's tragedy was good or not. Were proper emergency protocols followed - don't know and neither does anyone else other than RIOC and NYPD. To find out, yesterday, I sent the following message to RIOC President Leslie Torres and Vice President Of Operations Fernando Martinez seeking a comment:
Does RIOC wish to make any comment regarding the handling of the events following Sunday's tragic death of the 10 River Road Resident who jumped from his balcony and died on Main Street.Have not received any response back.
For instance, was there any communication between RIOC, Public Safety and the Tram/Subway Station to make sure that riders knew that there was no Red Bus service for most of Sunday afternoon and early evening? Was it possible to have an emergency route on the seawall so that vehicles could access the Octagon during this time?
Who was making decisions for RIOC during this incident? Was Senior Staff notified and making decisions or was it a lower level Public Safety Officer on the scene? I was told that there were only 4 Public Safety Officers on duty at the time. Is that true - were more called in after the incident?
Please let me know if you wish to respond to the handling of yesterday's incident. I plan on publishing post about this tomorrow.
Earlier that day, I sent this message to Ms. Torres:
A Roosevelt Island resident of 10 River Road jumped off his apartment balcony and landed on Main Street killing himself yesterday after smoking a hallucinogenic drug. Yet, the Roosevelt Island Daily Public Safety Report for yesterday described the incident asHave not received a response to this back either.
Aided- PSD and NYPD responded to a DOA.
Do you think that is an adequate explanation of the incident? After all, the Daily Public Safety Report is supposed to inform RIOC Senior Staff and the Roosevelt Island community of Public Safety incidents for that day. Merely referring to this incident as responding to a DOA hardly seems like a proper description. While it is true that Chief Guerra provided a written explanation last evening, the Daily Public Safety Report is lacking in description.
Another example of Daily Public Safety reports providing a less than accurate description of events happened on Friday March 4 when there was a large NYFD response to a fire/smoke condition at 2-4 River Road that I posted here.
The Public Safety Report for that day (below) does not appear to include that incident.
0700hrs 03/04/11 - 0700hrs 03/05/11
Disabled Phone- Tenant reports no dial tone, telephone provider will come out.
Aided- Male hurt transported to hospital.
Investigation- Male confused at subway, PSD responded and helped.
Found Property- RIOC bus driver found a credit card, turned it into PSD.
Aided- Male not feeling well, transported to hospital.
Aided- Male not feeling well, transported to hospital.
Aided- male not feeling well, transported to hospital.
Water Leak- Tenant is having pluming problems, UA responded.
Trespass- Male trespassed, PSD issued a summons.
Why would the Daily Public Safety Report fail to describe these incidents clearly and accurately? Can a more complete explanation of Daily Public Safety Events be implemented? The reports can still be brief but provide greater accuracy.
Also, I think it would be helpful in the future for both RIOC Senior Staff and the Roosevelt Island community if the Public Safety reports could include the time and place of incidents.
56 comments :
What about drugs on the island? I thought this was probably the most important question to PSD, well at least for me....
Considering the drug in question was Salvia, which is as legal as alcohol or cigarettes, I don't think that is relevant to the situation from this weekend.
I was more thinking of pot, which seems to be in abundance on the island?
The incident on Sunday was uniquely horrific and maybe the PD/PSD/Coroner did need the time to properly investigate the matter. With all due respect, because we are a 1-street town, couldn't an effort have been made to immediately route traffic around the scene of the tragedy or over to the seawall? Could the red buses have detoured around the area via the sea wall? It's likely a mile walk from the subway/tram to the Octagon. For those with mobility issues, walking even to Northtown from the tram/train may be a problem. It just appeared that there was no overall plan in place about what to do in the event of a stoppage of bus service.
Pot is really the smallest problem we have to solve. How many people have died on RI because of drug use?
what about people selling cigarettes to kids?
I agree with MP, Salvia is a legal drug for now. Not much anyone could have done about it. People are just starting to hear about it in the last two weeks. My friends heard about it the week before on spanish tv news.
@ Gregor, think about it, what turn onto the seawall could a bus or large truck make? The incident happened on a day where it was pouring rain. The nature of the incident means you need a large crime scene. You can't just move traffic a couple of feet around it. Its not like a sick passenger on the train, where you can move the sick passenger to the side and keep the trains moving. There are four or five turnaround points a bus has enough space to safely turn around on this island. Unfortunately, the incident happended in front of the second turnaround point. A bus coming from the tram or subway could only go as far as the Blackwell House before it could turn around. A bus coming from the octagon could only go as far as the fire house before it could turn around. So no, there is no common sense way for the buses to go through.
For all the retarded posters in the last thread who felt RIOC, Public Safety or NYPD could have handled it better, their resonse was quick. In these type of situations, the medical examiner has to come out to the scene, investigate the facts, and pick up the remains. I am sure this was not the only death in new york city on sunday. The medical examiner usually has several cases a day to respond to. The pouring rain does not help out the situation. In this situation, the primary job of any law enforcement whether it be Public Safety or NYPD is to secure the crime scene until the detectives and the medical examiner comes out to investigate. After the investigation, the scene also needs to be cleaned up.
Unfortunately television makes it seem like all this can be accomplished in less than a half hour or hour minus commercials but the reality is that this process takes hours, even longer on weekends or in bad weather.
I think Rick wants to be the President & CEO of RIOC. Who does he think he is critiquing what is posted on their website? We're lucky they even post that stuff, as they don't have to. Come on Rick, you are morphing into Dick the paper guy.
Thank you Retired NYPD for your thoughtful explanation. It was very helpful.
Unfortunately, such an explanation and more should come from RIOC but as yet, nor response.
To 12:51 (great name you chose) why do you object to me or anyone else asking questions or critiquing the actions of RIOC. They are a NY State governmental agency and it is entirely appropriate to hold them accountable - for both the good they do as well as the bad.
Why should those comments come from the RIOC? The NYPD was in charge of the scene and in charge of the logistics. While it would be nice to hear from RIOC, I don't think it's their responsibilty - State Agency or not. Why can't we get a response from the NYPD? They were the ones in charge. Personally, I'd like to hear from them.
Considering the only had 4 officers working, as per you. They did a great job and coordinated well enough to allow cars to drive on the seawall. They did a good job as first on scene and establishing a crime scene. As far as notices or advisories go, what difference would have it made? Seriously. The bus drivers knew they weren't working because, they were idling!. The tram should have known as well as passengers weren't going on a bus. Ridiculous.
The retired nyc cop explained the circumstances very well - so now we know why the buses couldn't get through & why the process took so long.
However, I do not agree with comment at 2:35pm. That is whitewashing RIOC ineptitude. You just don't let people wander around at the tram or train waiting for buses that never arrive and finding out from word of mouth that the bus is not running. There should have either been signs posted or a PSO at both the train & tram stops maybe along with a prominent sign, and if a particular resident needed the assistance getting home, the PSD should have made every effort to arrange it. Otherwise, you have random chaos, which is exactly what did happen that day. The lady with the baby & dog who was told to park to "wait out the rain" -- PSD should have routed her car to the Octagon via the sea wall. Maybe eventually she was (somehow) notified that she could drive north that way, but maybe not. We don't even know what happened - she probably had to park on the street south of Gristedes and then hoof it through the rain with the kid & dog (somehow). Do we see now that she has no third arm to hold an umbrella after having to carry the kid in one arm and hold on to the dog leash with the other? PSD can be disorganized on occasion.
From what I read on this blog, PSD did not have a huge staff working that day and deployed their people to the crime scene. I think they were more needed there than posting someone at the Tram or Subway. That's 2 people.
I do agree the Tram workers should have been able to tell everyone, the bus was not doing its route due to an emergency.
I did not report that there were only 4 PSD officers on duty Sunday. I reported that I was told there were only 4 PSD Officers on duty Sunday afternoon. Big difference.
I asked RIOC whether or not this was true and they have chosen, to date, not to respond to this question or any other regarding RIOC's performance during Sunday's incident.
Just responding to comments from 2:35 PM and 7:32 PM.
I agree with 7:32.
PSD are not security guards whose purpose is to just usher people along, they are law enforcement professionals. As far as criticizing them on notifications or not, I am sure word got along to the tram and bus personell that there is no north island access. Considering that it was a tragic day, I'm sur their priority was to find out how this happened and coordinated with the NYPD, and shared information about the incident. At least that is what I would like to believe happened in this day and age of inter agency relationships( think 9/11)
There are records kept if Public Safety notified the busses and/or the tram about the outtage. Every time the tram is out for weather, the tram operator notifies PSD (because PSD gets all the calls about it). Immediately, that information is given to the bus drivers and to all the officers working in case a resident asks them personally.
All these things get logged somewhere.
In a situation where it's Public Safety shutting the roadway down (and then NYPD), I'm almost 100% certain that the bus and tram were notified, and at that point it's their issue. PSD's concern is for the scene.
As for rerouting to the seawall, how long after the roadway shutdown did they reroute to the seawall? In other words, how long was there a complete shutdown north?
It was probably a manpower thing to start with. There's never enough manpower on the island.
They can't reroute the traffic to the seawall without having two officers on the seawall to coordinate southbouth and northbound cars as well as protect any potential pedestrians (who HATE when cars are on the seawall even official ones).
So, if there are only four officers working (one at the desk, one supervisor, and two patrol), there's not enough to secure the scene and reroute traffic.
When there are circumstances and tragedies like this, everyone is going to be inconvenienced on an island with an infrastructure like this one.
There's one road. There's only one way off. It's the chance you take living here.
I do not take the red bus, but for those that do, the absence of a sign regarding the red bus is ridiculous.
There is a phone in the subway token booth and a phone at the tram. PSD must have those numbers. If they do not, they should get them ASAP.
PSD should have called the token booth and tram personnel to AT LEAST hand write a sign regarding the suspension of red bus service due to the incident.
What would that sign have prevented?
IF you had to walk, you had to walk regardless. After waiting for a mystery bus, and if you are an island resident, you should know that a bus comes every so often.
COMMON SENSE GOES A LONG WAY!
How did people survive prior to being spoon fed everything?
9:52 is simply a jerk. I've been on RI for (probably too) many years and cannot remember a complete Red bus outage. If it *ever* happened since I've been here, it's extremely rare. 9:52 - how would you have liked to have walked up to the Octagon in the rain from the tram after pointlessly waiting at the bus stop for a while. I guess you think that's a fun way to spend a rainy Sunday. Tram riders could have waited for the Q102 which would have gotten them as far as the bridge -- at least a good way toward the Octagon -- had they been informed of the red bus outage and reminded of the availability (albeit infrequent) of the Q102 at the tram.
To 4:00 poster, before I moved to Manhattan Park, I lived in the Bronx. During the East Coast Blackout, I walked from 30th Street in Manhattan to 125th street before getting a taxi that took me over the Willis Ave. Bridge. Get real! A walk from the Subway or Tram to the Octagon doesn't compare. You just can't seem to get that you had no other choice (as did I) but to walk. Stop crying, it was one day - and it was due to a tragic emergency. Get over it already.
We've all walked during transit strikes/blackouts - then there *was* no choice and we all knew about the unavailability of transportation either in advance or as it occurred (as power was lost). In the instance under discussion, residents were treated like so much chopped liver - either they'd wait like dummies at the bus stop, or eventually figure out there was no bus except the Q102. I just don't think that's a particularly respectful/responsible approach on the part of PSD to the residents. If there are changes in train routes, doesn't the TA post signs throughout stations advising riders that a particular train won't be coming along that day & so forth. It wouldn't have been such a daunting thing for PSD to have notified the tram & the subway station that there was no red bus running and could they please post appropriate signage (also reminding riders about the Q102 which was running).
You live in a sheltered spoon fed life. I lived in the real city(off island) for most of my life. Things happen and you cant always be happy. Just move on. It wasnt that serious. At the octogon, you can wait under shelter and not be exposed while observing the street for a bus. Adivsory or not, its what happened and it shouldnt be taken as residents being treated as chopped liver, an emergency was being treated as a priority with a young man who is deceased on a roadway along with an active crime scene. I have been stuck along bus routes and train routes in the real city on a few occassions such as car accidents, manhole contruction, emergency track repair. Waiting pointlessly for more than 30 minutes during near rush hour for a red bus that normally takes no more than 10minutes during that hour is your fault. It still does not negate the fact that you still had to walk from the octagon. It was nevertheless a circumstance that could not have been avoided at that specific time. An EMERGENCY situation. God forbid upon anyone but I know if my family, friends or myself was in an emergency, I want the world to stop spinning.
I've lived in the "real world" most of my life too buddy - but the real world of NYC is much larger and much more "impersonal" than RI. In a tiny community the size of RI, I do expect the "management" -- RIOC/PSD -- to be on top of notifying the "captive audience" that is the hapless Island residents of important outages, such as red bus outage, as soon as RIOC/PSD knows of it. Is that too much to ask? We're not exactly talking about gigantic metropolises like Brooklyn or Queens when we refer to Roosevelt Island, which isn't even the size of the smallest neighborhood in any of the other boroughs. Is it too much to ask of the bozos at RIOC/PSD to find the brainpower to have notices posted at the tram & train of no transportation to Octagon as I have written above. I don't want to keep repeating myself, especially to a person who simply cannot stop defending the stupidity of RIOC/PSD. What if a water-main break had occurred stopping bus service? Then we would have been notified since it wasn't a tragedy? What difference does it make in terms of delivering bus service? I think RIOC/PSD failed in the very simple task of at least alerting residents that transportation from the tram/train all the way up to Octagon on a rainy day was just not going to be available. And that's the last thing I'll say about it. RIOC/PSD failed, period!
It's not so much of a defense, it's something that wouldn't have made much of a difference.
Just because we happen to live on a tiny island doesn't mean we should expect better than NYC average. I would never dream of insisting on that.
Since when is the PSD responsible for buses?
Isn't that the reason we have bus supervisors on the island? I guarantee my savings that he was notified. Why did he not post memos up him/herself if they were concerned and knew psd was dealing with a crime scene?
I've been inconvenienced many times when a particular train isn't running - especially on the weekends. However, the TA makes an effort to inform riders before the changes and while the changes are on, with plenty of signage at the affected stations. Also - there are PA systems on trains/buses to inform riders of any changes. RI red bus system is like a million times smaller than the TA. You cannot tell me that RIOC, which runs both PSD and the red bus system, couldn't figure out a way to have even 1 sign posted at the tram/train notifying riders that there 's no red bus service. Is that such an incredibly complex, logistically impossible thing for RIOC/PSD/red bus supervisors -- all part of the same organization -- to manage to do? Don't they put signs on the elevators at the trains when they are down -- so riders aren't standing there waiting for an elevator that will never come? It's the same thing with the 7-hour bus outage on 3/6 - someone, red bus people, PSD people or RIOC people, should have posted signs advising riders there were no red buses. They didn't, so they failed.
But they already know the service changes ahead of time. Why is a supervisor of trams and busses getting paid almost 6 figures? Waste of money.
Whaa, Whaa, Whaa ... I didn't get notified. Oh, wait ... there was a tragic emergency??? I'll still complain, because I'm a spoiled Roosevelt Island resident.
To 12:11pm: Wow - how erudite, I'm astounded by your articulate comment. We finally see what the stalwart defender of RIOC is reduced to -- babytalk. I guess the "spoiled brats" of RI are right: RIOC and its supporters have mush for brains, especially on 3/6 when they failed miserably in the simple task of notifying Octagon and all other residents who must use the bus, of the 7-hour red bus outage.
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